DEAR DR. NERDLOVE: I’m a 30-year old professional nerd/gamer-but-it’s-complicated woman who’s read your column for years for both the advice and the comments. I was wondering if you could help shed some light on an issue I’ve had ever since I started trying to date.
Although I’ve always looked to date men who are nerdy and similarly invested into the hobbies I am, I inevitably end up feeling we have nothing in common, because the “way” they enjoy their lives is too different from the way I enjoy mine. For example, the main way I show my appreciation for games and shows is by analyzing character interactions and relationships, discussing them with close friends, and using them as inspiration for creating fan content. In contrast, my male dates just talk about the challenge of games or the spectacle of action, often focusing on their multiplayer win-loss ratios, tales of hijinx with friends, or talking about tough game challenges they beat. Although I do understand having pride in your skills, and there’s indie/roguelike games I’ve spent way too long on, that’s not a topic that interests me when talking to other people-who-I-want-to-date.
“I beat Pokemon Gold with a Magikarp!”
“That’s cool! But that says little about who you are as a person… and I could just watch a YouTube video of that?”
I think another element of it is that traditionally, “female oriented fandom” which produces fanworks, shares personal experiences and headcanons about characters, and generally indulges in the creativity I enjoy, has been looked down as being silly or “fake fans” by male nerds because they don’t focus on hardcore skill. This naturally makes it harder for me to change the topic to “but, cool s--t aside, who did you ship in the cast of characters? I really enjoyed the emotional arc this guy went through…”, and I end up nodding and smiling through dates as a result. Even when I do change the conversation to character interactions successfully, the level of discussion I’ve gotten has been very surface-level and “Oh, I loved Asuka because she was just doing her best, and I like tsunderes.”
Doc, I want to be able to share my experiences with the person I date and have a supportive mutual rapport with them, but I don’t know how to get it. I don’t want to date non-nerds (who I have even less in common with), but dating nerds has been an exercise in frustration and being reminded that my way of enjoying things is “wrong” because it’s feminine. In about 20 years of nerddom, I have found one single male friend who is just as happy to talk about fictional character relationships as I am, and I can’t date him for other reasons. So it would be easier if I dated women who shared my experiences… but I’m pretty sure I’m not attracted to them.
Do you have any advice, or perspective from the male side? Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Fangirl Filter
DEAR FANGIRL FILTER: This is a common issue a lot of female geeks have: guys who want a geek girlfriend… but one who is geeky the exact same way they are. Part of the problem has been the deliberate segmentation of the market in the late 80s and early 90s; boys were seen as being an easier market to reach, were more prone to be early adopters and show more interest in action and tech-oriented activities, including computer and console gaming, in no small part because of decades of sexism that made women unwelcome in STEM fields. Despite women having been in fandom and geek communities since before the 20th century, geek culture has been marketed as male culture and male-coded activities have been treated as dominant or superior, with the female versions being seen as lesser somehow.
(Ironically enough, things like coding and computation were seen as female-coded responsibilities and delegated to secretaries and the typing pool… until computers started to become more and more important. At this point, men claimed it as their domain and put up a sign saying “no girls allowed”…)
As a result, you have a lot of guys who are geeks, but who engage in their fandom and their interests in a very particular way. Moreover, the geek or gamer identity is literally marketed to them as being about consumption rather than how you interact with the things you love. They’re “gamers” because of the specific games they play and the way they play them. The isolation and societal exclusion becomes a mark of pride; they, ironically, recreate the very social hierarchies and behaviors that excluded them in the first place, just with them on top. It becomes less of a matter of exclusion than of exclusivity. Their accomplishments become the marker of their worth. Hence you get people losing their goddamn minds over, say, a game having an optional mode to lower the difficulty, making it more accessible to others. How can you be special for beating a Souls game when anyone could? How special could their hobby be if anyone could access it without having to “prove” their worth by “gittin gud”?
But the problem — for them, at least — is that capitalism knows no loyalty. Women, especially in the 18-35 range — have long been an economically desirable demographic and they have never stopped being interested in geeky things. Where there is money to be had, there are vested financial interests in catering to the people who have that money, and so traditionally “male” marketed properties and activities have been moving to expand their reach and be more inclusive. But with change comes conflict; the expansion of the market to previously underserved audiences has led to men who mistakenly think women are “invading” what is supposed to be “their” space, rather than no no longer being the sole focus of the market. And it’s led to issues like the ones you face: trying to connect with people who interact with their passions in a completely different way. And unfortunately, the difference in how people interact with their passions and with fandom leads to inadvertent moments of bouncing off each other; it’s akin to cats and dogs wondering why the other doesn’t understand them.
Case in point: the guy who is proud of having beaten Pokemon Gold with Magikarp is trying to impress you with his mighty e-peen; he has accomplished these legendary deeds that mark him as one of the elite. This, in his social circle, is a significant and meaningful accomplishment. And to be fair: it is difficult and requires an investment of his time and effort.
(Without even evolving it to Gyarados? Freaking masochist…)
But the problem is that value is subjective; that may be something that marks him as high-status amongst his friends, but it’s not something that matters to you. You don’t interact with your interests the same way, you don’t value that sort of accomplishment the way he does. As a result: you have this disconnect: you’re both geeks, but your geekiness doesn’t mesh the way it would need to, in order to spark your interest.
Now, the good news is that while this difference is common… it’s not universal. There are men who get more into the social or interpersonal aspects of their interests, men who dig the characterization and relationships over Doing Cool S--t In The Game or what-have-you. The trick is finding them.
So how do you go about doing that?
Well, as I’m always fond of saying: you want to go where the people you want to date are more likely to hang out. When it comes to men who are more open to the way you interact with your geeky interests, it can help to focus on games or media that lend themselves more to the way you geek out. Narrative heavy games — tabletop RPGs like Vampire or Mage, video games like Persona or Mass Effect and the like — are more likely to have folks who like relationships and in-depth character analysis. Fans of podcasts or Twitch shows like Critical Role, The Adventure Zone, LA By Night are, likewise, more likely to appreciate the story and relationships of the characters, rather than Doing Cool S--t. Yeah, Caleb blowing dudes away with a well-timed fireball is awesome, but most of the Critters are there for the moments of Beau trying to talk him through his PTSD.
The same goes for people who tend to be on the more creative side of things. Writers and artists with a geeky bent tend to be more invested in the relationships or character development — even graphic artists who love drawing dramatic and exciting scenes tend to think about the story behind whatever they’re depicting on screen or canvas. And while you’ll still find people who think things like fanfic are “girly” or “pointless”, you’re much more likely to find people who are, at the very least, open to the sort of things you’re into.
It’s also worth noting that it can be worth your time to talk to non-nerds. While having interests in common is good in general, you don’t need to be into the exact same things to make a relationship work. As you’ve seen, just being a geek doesn’t mean you’re gonna work as a couple. By that same token, a guy not being an active geek doesn’t automatically mean you two can’t click. You don’t need to share all the same interests, you want someone who can at least understand why you like the things you like and respect them. It’s also worth noting that more people are at least geek curious than you’d realize. Geek culture is mainstream culture these days; you can’t swing a stick without hitting a Marvel or DC property these days. The CW is 90% genre programming, and the must-see, cultural conversations these days focus on shows like Falcon and the Winter Soldier, Shadow and Bone, Warrior, Wandavision, The Nevers, etc. Someone who can understand why “On your left…” or “I’m still worthy!” can provoke an emotional reaction out of people is someone who is more likely to be open to checking out Nausicaa and the Valley of the Wind or Carole and Tuesday.
Yeah, this may mean that you’d have to look a little further afield than usual or diversifying where you spend your time. But by focusing on areas and social groups that are more in line with your flavor of geekiness, you’re much more likely to find folks who engage with them in ways that are compatible with you. Or you might find a non-geek who might be interested in checking out some of the stuff you enjoy too.
It can take some doing… but as the saying goes: nobody said it’d be easy, just that it’s worth it.
Good luck.
Please send your questions to Dr. NerdLove at his website (www.doctornerdlove.com/contact); or to his email, doc@doctornerdlove.com