life

Regardless of His Age, He's Still Your Fiance

Miss Manners by by Judith Martin, Nicholas Ivor Martin and Jacobina Martin
by Judith Martin, Nicholas Ivor Martin and Jacobina Martin
Miss Manners | November 23rd, 2014 | Letter 1 of 3

DEAR MISS MANNERS: I am a widow who has been seeing a widower for over a year. He is such a lovely and distinguished gentleman. We are planning on being married soon.

We are both in our 80s and do not wish to live together without being married. We feel it sends the wrong message to our children and grandchildren.

I am puzzled as to how I should introduce my gentleman friend to my friends. At our age, is it appropriate to introduce him as my fiance?

GENTLE READER: It is true that the term "fiance" is now used in odd ways. Miss Manners has noticed that in news accounts, if an unmarried mother is beaten up by the father of at least some of her children, he will be identified as her boyfriend, whereas if he is not mistreating her, he is referred to as her fiance. It, and the female equivalent, is often used by couples who seem to have no intention of being married.

But she is puzzled about why you believe there is an age limit in using the term correctly, to describe the gentleman you do, indeed, plan to marry. As with the terms "husband" and "wife," there is no association with age.

Perhaps you are reacting against the sudden descent into girlishness that so often overtakes brides who are independent and over the age of consent -- the bouffant white dresses, the summoning of someone to give them away, the notion that others must refurnish their long-since-established households.

Miss Manners is indulgent about those aspects that are merely in questionable taste, although she roundly condemns grabbiness in bridal couples of any age. But though she admires second and late-life weddings that are sophisticated, rather than showy, she doesn't want to spoil the fun of those who crave all-out pageants.

She would be sorry to think that the show business wedding had come to be so accepted as the standard that you and your lovely, distinguished fiance could not use the traditional terms.

Etiquette & EthicsMarriage & Divorce
life

Beggars Can't Be Choosers When Scarfing Down Thanksgiving Dinner

Miss Manners by by Judith Martin, Nicholas Ivor Martin and Jacobina Martin
by Judith Martin, Nicholas Ivor Martin and Jacobina Martin
Miss Manners | November 23rd, 2014 | Letter 2 of 3

DEAR MISS MANNERS: What do you serve for family members at Thanksgiving who have invited themselves over for Thanksgiving dinner, but who do not eat turkey or ham?

GENTLE READER: Sweet potatoes and patience.

Family & ParentingHolidays & Celebrations
life

Host's Guest Towels Are Not Meant To Be Used By Guests

Miss Manners by by Judith Martin, Nicholas Ivor Martin and Jacobina Martin
by Judith Martin, Nicholas Ivor Martin and Jacobina Martin
Miss Manners | November 23rd, 2014 | Letter 3 of 3

DEAR MISS MANNERS: In our guest bath, I have a rectangular napkin holder for folded decorative paper napkins to be used by guests for drying their hands. My thought is that I am providing our guests with a more sanitary way to dry their hands rather than multiple guests using the same hanging hand towels.

What is mind-boggling to me is that many guests appear to prefer using the hanging hand towels rather than the disposable decorative napkins. Am I off base in believing that the disposable decorative napkins are a nice and appropriate alternative?

GENTLE READER: The guests are using the guest towels? Shocking! But at least when you slap their hands, their hands will be dry.

What boggles Miss Manners' mind is why anyone would hang towels in the bathroom when expecting guests who are not expected to use them.

(Please send your questions to Miss Manners at her website, www.missmanners.com; to her email, dearmissmanners@gmail.com; or through postal mail to Miss Manners, Universal Uclick, 1130 Walnut St., Kansas City, MO 64106.)

Etiquette & EthicsHealth & Safety
life

Leave Spoon on the Table, Not in the Glass

Miss Manners by by Judith Martin, Nicholas Ivor Martin and Jacobina Martin
by Judith Martin, Nicholas Ivor Martin and Jacobina Martin
Miss Manners | November 20th, 2014 | Letter 1 of 3

DEAR MISS MANNERS: Is it proper to leave a spoon in a cup or glass while drinking coffee, tea or iced tea?

GENTLE READER: No. Watching the spoon attempting to bang on the drinker's nose is unnerving, regardless of whether it succeeds.

Etiquette & Ethics
life

In This Case, A Second Baby Shower Is Allowed

Miss Manners by by Judith Martin, Nicholas Ivor Martin and Jacobina Martin
by Judith Martin, Nicholas Ivor Martin and Jacobina Martin
Miss Manners | November 20th, 2014 | Letter 2 of 3

DEAR MISS MANNERS: My sister-in-law is getting married days before my husband and I will have our first child. She told me she wanted to throw a baby shower for me and even told me to save a date. My in-laws seem to be excited about us having a baby.

One of my dearest friends said that she wanted to help out with the shower and asked for her contact information. When I told my sister-in-law, she said that she did not want my friend's help, and that she and her mother planned a small family shower for me.

This led me to believe that it will be a shower just of my husband's family, as my mother has passed away and my small family mostly lives out of town.

This really hurt me, and I am not sure how to react. I want my family and my friends to celebrate my baby with me, but they would not be welcome to a shower thrown by my in-laws. I cannot talk to my husband about this, as I feel this will put him between a rock and a hard place.

I know it's immature for me to feel like I do, but now I do not want to go to my own shower. Should I just tell the in-laws to forget it and let my friends throw a shower for me instead? Should I grin and bear it, as this is my husband's family and will be a part of our lives forever? After this, I really do not want to spend too much time with them. What advice can you offer to me?

GENTLE READER: That you were right that these people will be part of your lives forever. And again when you said your desire to boycott the shower was immature.

Showers are supposed to be given by friends and not family. You may make one polite attempt to inform your sister-in-law of this ("Oh dear, I don't want to look as if the family is begging for gifts on my behalf"), as well as point out that she will have her own wedding to worry about.

But if both attempts fail, you must politely endure. Miss Manners is further willing to break a second rule on your behalf -- that one should not have more than one shower -- as long as you can assure her that the guest list will not be repeated.

Family & ParentingMarriage & DivorceEtiquette & Ethics
life

Avoid Thanksgiving Leftovers By Serving Less Food

Miss Manners by by Judith Martin, Nicholas Ivor Martin and Jacobina Martin
by Judith Martin, Nicholas Ivor Martin and Jacobina Martin
Miss Manners | November 20th, 2014 | Letter 3 of 3

DEAR MISS MANNERS: Over the years, we have given our family the equivalent of an entire meal to take home after Thanksgiving. This year we are not providing "take-out meals" in addition to hosting for two and a half days and the Thanksgiving Day dinner. We know the family will expect this. How do we address this?

GENTLE READER: By not overestimating their capacity, so that when they go begging, you can honestly say, "You ate it all."

(Please send your questions to Miss Manners at her website, www.missmanners.com; to her email, dearmissmanners@gmail.com; or through postal mail to Miss Manners, Universal Uclick, 1130 Walnut St., Kansas City, MO 64106.)

Family & ParentingHolidays & Celebrations
life

Instant Responses Are Not Always Possible

Miss Manners by by Judith Martin, Nicholas Ivor Martin and Jacobina Martin
by Judith Martin, Nicholas Ivor Martin and Jacobina Martin
Miss Manners | November 18th, 2014 | Letter 1 of 2

DEAR MISS MANNERS: From the perspective of a retired business executive, I do not find complaints about delays in hiring decisions unusual.

As things go, a job is offered to the winning candidate, and the employer waits for that candidate to accept before posting the job as filled. Should that candidate not accept or fail the drug testing, etc., the employer then has candidates two, three and so forth to fall back on.

I firmly believe that many of today's young men and women are so impatient that they expect immediate gratification on so many fronts. Society has taught these folks these bad habits and that behavior is, unfortunately, rampant.

Just look around the dining room during your next meal out and witness all of the patrons who are preoccupied with their texting, emailing, etc., during a meal. Disgusting!

Has the advent of instant messaging changed the time allowed to respond to business or personal correspondence?

GENTLE READER: Certainly. An American gentleman writing to his tailor in London in the 19th century had to be content to wait the months it could take a letter to reach its destination. Technology today makes it possible to respond almost instantaneously, and this has indeed shortened what is considered to be an acceptable wait.

But that is not the only factor. As you note, some delays are dictated by considerations other than the speed of the delivery service. A lady may wish to consider before accepting a proposal of marriage. If she requires an unusually long period for reflection, Miss Manners suggests she send an intermediate communication naming the time at which an answer may be expected.

The same rule may be applied to business correspondence.

life

Miss Manners for November 18, 2014

Miss Manners by by Judith Martin, Nicholas Ivor Martin and Jacobina Martin
by Judith Martin, Nicholas Ivor Martin and Jacobina Martin
Miss Manners | November 18th, 2014 | Letter 2 of 2

DEAR MISS MANNERS: My husband and I have invited a few friends over for Thanksgiving dinner. I was asked by some guests how many turkeys would I be preparing, and also was told how they prepared their stuffing and how much they like it that way!

After I said I might make a ham (for another friend who does not like turkey), I was told I should make a roast beef instead! I was flabbergasted on their comments from preparation to what I should make!

In the past when I have invited this couple, not once have they ever offered to bring a dish to pass nor any other way to help, nor a hostess gift or thank-you card.

Am I in the right to be upset? I feel very frustrated to have someone tell me what and how to do something with my own Thanksgiving dinner. My husband and I are thinking about doing a family dinner only now, as I am too afraid I'll get argumentative if these guests comment on something!

GENTLE READER: Perhaps you can explain to Miss Manners why you have continued to invite thankless people to Thanksgiving dinner. It seems singularly inappropriate.

In any case, the time to argue -- quietly and politely -- is at the first instance of interference. You should say: "I'll try to plan a menu that pleases everyone, but I'm not taking individual orders. I hope you will join us anyway."

(Please send your questions to Miss Manners at her website, www.missmanners.com; to her email, dearmissmanners@gmail.com; or through postal mail to Miss Manners, Universal Uclick, 1130 Walnut St., Kansas City, MO 64106.)

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