DEAR MISS MANNERS: I was wondering the proper order of events, pertaining an engagement. Does the groom ask her father for hand in marriage, then ask her and give her the diamond? Or does he ask her to marry him and then her father?

GENTLE READER: He should not ask her father to marry him. Proposing to two members of the same family can only end in strife or bigamy.

If, however, you wish to ask the father's permission to ask the lady to marry you, you must do so first. However, Miss Manners warns you not to attempt this before being reasonably sure of a favorable reply from the lady. "Your father is OK with your marrying me" is not a persuasive argument these days.

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DEAR MISS MANNERS: Perhaps I am a bit old-fashioned, but I was taught that men are not supposed to offer to shake hands. I understood that it was only the lady who offered her hand.

My work entails meeting many people on a daily basis and I am always surprised at how many men wish to shake hands. Perhaps if you address this "problem" it will relieve those of us who frequently encounter this situation.

GENTLE READER: Being old-fashioned is not the problem here -- not, mind you, that Miss Manners considers being old-fashioned a problem. You are merely dated. Same idea, but without the mitigating charm.

When ladies started advancing in the workplace in significant numbers, many were unaware that the ladies-first system of precedence, so charming in private life, has no place there. Precedence in a professional situation is based on rank, so it is the higher-ranking person, regardless of gender, who has the choice of offering to shake hands.

DEAR MISS MANNERS: Please leave the parlor for a moment to lend your expertise to those suffering in the backwoods in tents.

On our first camping trip of the summer, I was unfortunately reminded of why we stopped camping last summer. Is it the lack of running water, the mosquitoes, the spiders in the showers or the poison ivy?

NO! It is the inconsiderate numbskulls in the campsite next door who have never learned or have conveniently forgotten basic campground manners.

The noise, Miss Manners, the noise! I am not talking about young children, crying babies or an occasional loud voice that is immediately shushed. I am referring to those people who cannot for a moment enjoy the quiet and thus bring their boom boxes and thrust their musical selections on all of us, and those who ignore the thin nylon sheet that separates neighbor from neighbor and speak in loud voices all through the night.

Despite a large sign at the check-in desk citing a specific quiet time (11 p.m.!), we were bombarded with raised voices and music all night.

In the early morning, again people pass by tents on their way to the showers with laughter and shouting. PLEASE help us. Perhaps a refresher course on the etiquette of camping could enlighten a new generation and let people curse the mosquitoes instead of their own species at campgrounds.

GENTLE READER: Leave the nice, quiet parlor and go out there in the noisy wilderness? To confront a bunch of scofflaws who already know the rules and have chosen to disobey them?

With your permission, Miss Manners will content herself with endorsing the noise rules and advising you how to approach the noisemakers without inciting them to make trouble as well.

There is something inherently grouchy about telling people, however legitimately, that you are trying to sleep. If you ask them politely if they could be quiet for an hour or so because you are listening for birds, you will at least stun them into momentary silence. And the answer to "You can't hear birds now" is "Precisely. So I wonder if you would turn that off for a while -- I believe it is against the rules anyway -- so that we can try."

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DEAR MISS MANNERS: My other and I are not married yet, in no small part because of this exact dilemma:

We've been living together for eight years, we own a house together, etc. We will, someday, get married, and what we would very much like to do is dig a hole in our backyard and roast a pig, invite everyone we love for a pig-roast and just announce the civil ceremony at some point between the moppings.

The idea being that this way would extend our hospitality to our loved ones and have them with us while we take our vows, while avoiding the unpleasantness/untowardness I've been reading about in your column for, lo, these many years.

Our concern is that there are people who would like to be at our wedding but will respectively decline an invitation to a pig-roast, and will be upset to find out later what they missed. Since these are mostly elder family members, we did consider having a different sort of party they'd be more likely to attend, but concluded that it would be so out of character (tea for 100 in our yard?) that we couldn't pull it off without spilling the beans.

Do you have any thoughts -- either as to how to share the information with those who might want to know, or as to how else entirely we might consider doing this?

GENTLE READER: Yes -- hold the pig-roast and skip the wedding. Miss Manners is overstepping her jurisdiction by saying this, but people who are deterred from binding their lives together because of a worry about the day's menu have no business getting married.

Her next choice would be to make the pig a surprise, instead of, or along with, the wedding. Inviting people to a wedding ensures that the people who want to attend will do so, but there is no need to disclose the menu for a wedding or, if you insist on that being a surprise, a garden party. Or serve both pig and tea and call it a tea party.

Miss Manners trusts that you will have other food for those who might find the pig upsetting, and that you are not afraid of having a surprise pig upstage a surprise wedding.

DEAR MISS MANNERS: How can I invite guests for overnight stays at our beach house and indicate that we cannot accommodate their pets due to the allergy problems they create? I understand that some people may decline the invitation due to this, but I'm trying to find the most respectful way to word the invitation.

GENTLE READER: By lavishing concern on their pets from a safe distance. "You know we adore Tibald and Mimsy," Miss Manners suggests you say, "and we're so sorry we can't ask you to bring them. I wish we could. Can you find someone who will take good care of them? It's such a shame that we can't have them here, but we do hope you can come all the same."

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