DEAR DR. NERDLOVE: I’m a guy in my mid-twenties. All my life I was/am pretty shy, very passive when it comes to interacting with other people, needed a lot of time to open up, overall that guy that only speaks if it is spoken to. Being in a relationship or going to dates is out of the question.��Around two years ago I started attending bachata classes (and afterwards also picked salsa and kizomba). I wanted to learn how to dance, to stop using excuses when I’m at a wedding or some event. I felt the need to socialize after some lockdown restrictions were lifted but I would be lying if I didn’t recognize that I also wanted to make myself more appealing to women and find my special someone. With some of them I succeeded and some not that much.��Now when I’m at a “civilian” event I’m very confident in regards to dancing, I feel the rhythm and move my body just fine. When I started attending classes I made a conscious effort to socialize and got myself a small but tight group of friends. Over time I got some positive feedback from women: “you are my favorite leader”, “I feel safe dancing sensual bachata with you”, “you dance so well and can lead me in elements I never did before”, “with you I can be myself and fool around during a dance”. But this is where my successes end. I heard both the “women don’t attend hobby classes to find a partner” and also the “you should attend a hobby class if you want to find a partner”, I tried asking out some colleagues if I was vibing with them and felt that it was mutual but I was always rejected and before you say “women don’t like to be hit on when attending hobby classes” I’ve seen plenty of colleagues starting dating and it makes me question “wtf I’m doing wrong? why do they have success and I’m not?”. In the overall dance scene I’m having an even harder time, I’m a regular at the local dance parties and attend lots of festivals outside my city. I’ve seen people constantly hooking up in the scene and I’m like “how????”.��Lots of men are wondering “where to go to meet women” and I found the answer for myself but I don’t know how to do step 2. I have no idea how to even start a conversation, most of my talk is “do you want to dance?” followed by “thank you” at the end. I’m not the type that enjoys talking during the dance but afterwards I would really like to get to know some of these women and I can’t even make myself to ask them their name. It’s like I’m so close yet so far.
Two years later I’m still going strong and I don’t see myself dropping dancing any time soon. I love the music and developed an appreciation for what the artists have achieved. I get excited every time I learn some new move and I’m constantly trying to improve my technique. The reason I dance changed but this last nugget is still bugging me. In regards to interacting with women I’m a lot better now but is still so underdeveloped. Any sort of advice or encouragement you could give me?
Thank you,�The Mute Dancer
DEAR THE MUTE DANCER: First and foremost, TMD: congratulations on becoming such a skilled dancer and getting out of your comfort zone! That’s really admirable and you should be rightly proud of how much you’ve accomplished.
I would also point out that what you’ve been learning – leading, rhythm, being aware and in control of your body and how it moves through space – is going to make you damn sexy. Part of the reason why women like a guy who can dance is that level of physical confidence, sensuality and control that comes with being skilled at dancing.
Now, this isn’t precisely the question you asked, but I want to address something you brought up in your letter that I feel is important:
“I heard both the “women don’t attend hobby classes to find a partner” and also the “you should attend a hobby class if you want to find a partner”
This is something that tends to trip a lot of people up, in part because the advice seems contradictory. And to be fair, I could be clearer when I’ve brought this up, so clearly I’m part of the problem.
Both of these are true, but as with most things, there’s important context.
If you’ve read me before, I’m sure you’ve seen my talking about “finding your people” or figuring out where the people you most want to date like to hang out. You may have also seen me talk about how shared interests help bring people together and that exploring your interests that bring you in contact with like-minded folks helps you expand your social network and exposes you to more people who you may click with. This is why I’m an advocate for going to meetups or finding events that match up with your passions.
But the way you conduct yourself at these becomes important, and it makes all the difference between “women at $CLASS aren’t there to find a date” and “take $CLASS to meet women”.
The thing that folks get wrong about a lot of “where to go to meet women” advice is that often what many folks are looking for is a – for lack of a better term – “target rich environment”. The problem is that lots of dudes go to dance classes or yoga classes or any of the other usual places that people toss out there, not because they’re interested in yoga or salsa or what-have-you, but because there’re lots of women. They tend to try to treat the hobby space like a sex ATM. They’re the ones who are cruising around like horny sharks, rather than actually participating in the class, and making the people who are there to learn how to dance or wanting to work through their asanas uncomfortable.
Most folks who are going to those classes are there because they’re interested in the classes themselves. They’re not there to get a date or a partner or to find someone at that class to hook up with. A dude who rolls in there who clearly doesn’t give a s--t and who’s shotgunning his way through the conventionally attractive members is disruptive to that, and enough of them will kill the vibe of the whole endeavor for everyone.
But if those same participants – the ones who are there specifically for the class – were to have a brief chat with someone in the class who’s also clearly there to learn and discover that they’re a charming and friendly individual and they have fun talking? They may well decide that they’d like to grab a coffee or some ice cream after class and keep the conversation going. And that may lead to something deeper. You would be hard pressed to find someone who’s single and up to mingle who wouldn’t find think that was a wonderful meet-cute.
The difference between those two examples is that one is artificial and disruptive, while the other is organic and flows naturally from a place of shared common interests and not having an agenda outside of “you seem cool, we have fun talking… let’s keep the conversation going”. Just as importantly, the horny sharks are looking for something to stick their dick in; they’re not that concerned with the individual. Meanwhile the more organic scenario I mention is entirely contingent on those two specific people, not a “you’re cute enough, you’ll do”.
You are, very clearly, someone who is taking these classes because you want to learn how to dance. You get a lot out of it, you’ve devoted a lot of time to it and you’ve become very skilled at it. And while, yeah, you wanted to be more desirable to women – and there’s nothing wrong AT ALL with that, whether it’s your primary motivation or not – you’re clearly there for love of the dance. That’s going to count for a lot, since it speaks to what you’re actually there for.
So does the positive feedback you’ve been getting. “I feel safe dancing sensual bachata with you”? “With you I can be myself and fool around during a dance”? That’s huge. That’s some first-class, high level praise and it says that you’re someone who’s safe but not boring. That’s all very, very good, and that tells me that you’ve made serious progress at your goal of being more desirable to women. You’ve nailed two of the most important qualities right there. Attraction and arousal can’t exist without feelings of safety and comfort. If they feel comfortable enough to dance in a sensual way with you or feel like they can be genuine and even a bit goofy while you all dance? King, you’re more than halfway there.
The difference between you and your colleagues – I assume you mean in class, not at work – is likely the fact that you don’t talk much. “Skilled, aloof and mysterious” is great for gothic romance novels, but doesn’t work as well in real life. You’re not out there brooding on the moors after all, you’re out in the city, moving and grooving. If you want people to want more than a dance with you, you have to let them get to know you. And to do that, you’re going to have to start flapping your lips.
And honestly? You’re in a perfect position to do so. You have a whole host of conversation starters at your fingertips. “How long have you been dancing bachata?” “Do you dance other styles?” “I haven’t seen you at these before; is this your first time?” The important thing is that you just get the conversation going and keep it going.
Now, there’s good news and there’s less-good-news. The less-good-news is that you need to work at overcoming your reticence at initiating conversation and getting over the “I don’t talk to anyone unless they talk to me first.”
The good news is: you have already proven you can do this. If you can take even a little of the dedication that you applied to learning to dance – and becoming a damn good dancer – then you can learn to be more social and communicative. As with dancing, it’s a matter of learning and practicing the basics and then adding on as you get the hang of things.
The key here is to just start taking opportunities to interact with folks without needing to be prompted, first. The good thing is, if you’re going about in public, you’ll have plenty of opportunities to do so. When I was trying to get over approach anxiety and trying to be more social in general, I played “lost tourist”, asking strangers for things like “hey, is there a Starbucks/ATM/whatever nearby?” until I was less uncomfortable going up to people I didn’t know. As I got used to that, I would switch that to “hey, are you local? Is there a good place around here for Thai/ Tex-Mex/barbecue”? From there, it moved to trying to spin that into a very short conversation – no more than a couple minutes, until I was used to just… being more talkative while I was going about my day. It became something I just did.
(Incidentally, asking for opinions on local barbecue in Austin is a good way to get locked into a conversation that’s going to go a LOT longer than 5 minutes. People feel VERY strongly about barbecue here. And even more strongly about breakfast tacos.)
Just as with dancing, if you start working on speaking up and initiating conversations and keep at it, it’ll go from something you have to consciously think to do to pure muscle memory. If you can, say, start making a point of having even a brief – even just a simple “hey, I’m TMD, how’s your night going?” – conversation with folks, you’ll start breaking through that wall-o-silence you’ve been behind all this time.
Give people the chance to get to know you, TMD. Let the conversation start and the connection build. Before long, you’re going to feel confident enough and empowered enough to say “hey, I’m going to grab a coffee after this; would you like to join me?”
And then you will be one of those success stories you’ve been envying.
Good luck.
Please send your questions to Dr. NerdLove at his website (www.doctornerdlove.com/contact); or to his email, doc@doctornerdlove.com