DEAR DR. NERDLOVE: A long-time reader of your website here! I must say I like your no-nonsense and humane approach to things, although I haven’t really needed your advice the past years. Since I am now in the position that I do, I thought to ask you for some advice in the hope you could help me out.

My girlfriend and I recently ended our relationship and I am looking to start dating again. Before I settled down into a relationship with her, I dabbled in the Pick-Up/seduction community. I’ve had my successes, but not as big as some people in the community make themselves out to be.

I have a love/hate relationship with Pick-Up. I feel that it has given me some valuable lessons at the time, but I also think that some mindsets and thoughts in the community are highly poisoning or simply misogynistic. I’m afraid that without guidance I’ll fall back into some of these patterns, so I was wondering if you had some advice for someone with a (dabbling) background in Pick-Up. I’m not looking to spend five nights a week negging girls in a nightclub anymore. No more, I say!

Right now I’m a clean slate as I can be, regarding dating. I’d like to learn how to engage with women healthily this time. Do you have any advice? I know I don’t really have a specific question, but some general pointers on how to learn from, yet dodge the poisonous swamp that Pick-Up can sometimes be would be immensely helpful!

PUMaybe?

DEAR PUMAYBE: Y’know, it’s really easy to forget that the pick-up artist scene never really went away after it’s hey-day in the early 00’s and 10s. It surprises some folks to find out that not only is it still around, but it’s mutated in a number of different ways, from “classical” pick-up to the overtly misogynist Red Pill community, and even influenced the growth of groups like MGTOW and other MRA communities.

But hey, for as long as people have wanted to get laid, there’ve been folks who’ve been trying to teach people how to find all the shortcuts in the process.

Occasionally I’ll get a letter from someone that might as well be me ten years ago. Welcome to my life, PUMaybe; I’ve basically gone through most of what you’re going through and then some.

One of the ongoing issues – something that I started this site specifically to address – is that men don’t really have any way of learning HOW to interact with women. Our society has basically saddled us with an unfortunate dating binary: you’re either good with women or you aren’t, and there’s nothing you can do about it. If you admit to being bad and are trying to improve, you’re looked down upon as a loser. Half the time, our only “instruction” comes from watching other people get together and trying to backwards engineer it. God knows our parents don’t teach us much about meeting potential partners, and asking other guys for help is frequently a crap-shoot.

And honestly? Dating is literally the only place where this is true. If I wanted to get better at playing basketball and worked with a coach, nobody would blink twice. If I wanted to brush up my conversational Japanese and I bought a DuoLingo subscription or hired a private tutor, it’d be business as usual. But if someone sees you leaving Barnes and Noble with a copy of The Game and people will react with derision; not just because you’ve got a copy of The Game but because you’re clearly a dateless loser looking for a way to manipulate women into bed. If you admit you’ve worked with someone to brush up your Tinder profile, you’re gonna get some serious side-eye from folks because it represents the idea that you just didn’t know how to do this instinctively.

And let’s be clear: yeah, there’s a whole metric f

k-ton of people who got into pick-up because they wanted to manipulate women into having sex with ’em. But there are ALSO people who simply want to get better at dating and have no idea how. Pick-up is the only real outlet for those people because… what else do we have? Movies that teach us all the wrong goddamn lessons? Say what you will about pick-up but at least it’s an ethos.

But I digress.

As I’ve said many times before: I’m of two minds about the pick-up scene. On the one hand, I learned a lot from my days as a pick-up artist, stuff that I find incredibly valuable to this day. On the other hand… well, let’s face it, the pick-up scene is full of some seriously toxic, hateful and occasionally downright dangerous beliefs and information – and this is without getting into areas like The Red Pill aficionados, various ovulation-obsessed online “personalities” or Men’s Rights advocates and the rest of their ilk.

So the obvious question is: how can you separate the gold from the dross, the wheat from the chaff and the valuable information in pick-up from the misogyny and toxic ideas about masculinity?

(In before: “You can’t.”)

First: examine everything that you’ve been taught. How much of it is saying that “all women are X” or “Every woman wants Y?” Much of “traditional” pick-up is predicated on incorrect – or toxic –  ideas about women and female sexuality, especially that women are one giant monolith who want the same thing. Similarly, look at the ways you’re being told about being a man. How much of it is based around the stereotype of the “alpha male” and how much of it is “becoming the best, most authentic version of you”?  Are you trying to present a false or puffed up version of yourself in order to trigger an “instinctual” response in women? The more any technique or belief is based in evolutionary psychology or “all women want X”, the more toxic it’s likely to be.

Next: ask yourself “How much of this is based on coercing, pressuring or “tricking” women into doing what you want? The classic example are techniques for overcoming “anti-slut defense” or “last-minute resistance” or LMR busters – techniques like “the freeze-out” that’re supposed to overcome a response of “no, I don’t want to have sex with you” when you’re back at your place or her place; the whole “Yeah, we’re going to an afterparty, I just need to get my wallet/camera/beer first, why don’t you come in for a minute?” dodge to get someone to come home with you. It’s pitched as “giving her a plausible excuse to come home with you” because women need a way to explain how sex “just happened” rather than look like a slut, right bro?

Yeah, not so much. Here’s what the unspoken follow-up to that false pretense: “…and now you’re stuck at a strange man’s house without any way reliable way of getting home. Better not do something he doesn’t like!”

(As an aside: I, to my shame, used the false pretense trick back when I was deep in the pick-up scene. I had no idea how goddamn sketchy it was and having a female friend explain it to me – and smack me upside the head in the process – was a serious eye-opener. I can’t emphasize enough how much I regret having used that particular technique. Guys: NEVER DO THIS.)

Another example of trying to use social pressure or coercion is the ever-classic “neg”. Negging is all about trying to make someone crave your approval while indulging your desire to “get back” at someone for daring to not like you. Unlike antagonistic flirting and bantering – which is about both parties having fun – negging is all about proving you’re “better” than the other person and trying to lower their self-esteem.

Finally: ask yourself what you’re trying to do. A lot of pick-up is based around overriding women’s interest with your own; your desire to approach her overriding her desire to be left alone, etc. Pick-up works best when it’s less about getting “any” woman and more about identifying the right woman – the woman who’s interested in meeting someone, who may be looking to get laid that night etc. You want to work more towards a collaborative model of sex – rather than an antagonistic one based around the idea that sex is something that needs to be wheedled into, bargained for or bribed.

I’d also suggest reading Clarisse Thorn’s “Confessions of a Pick-Up Artist Chaser: Long Conversations With Horrible Men” – it’s an excellent break-down of the problems with pick-up and it’s positive side, from a feminist perspective.

So with all of that in mind, here’re the things I’d suggest you focus on:

Work on where you’re meeting women. If bars and clubs are your thing then more power to you, but if not, you may find more satisfaction meeting women in other venues. If you’re doing cold-approaches – and being able to do cold approach is a valuable skill in general – then make sure you’re approaching women who’re interested, rather than pestering women who’d rather be left alone.

Focus less on canned routines or pick-up “tricks” like negging and more on generating chemistry – these will serve you much better and will actually be much more congruent with who you are.

Emphasize enthusiastic consent. Part of what makes a woman more likely to go home with somebody is if she thinks the sex is likely to be worth the potential risks. Generating chemistry is part of how you emphasize that the sex will be great but lowering the risk is the other half of the equation. Looking for signs of enthusiastic engagement and interest (rather than “going along with it” or “feeling like she’s obligated”) and responding in a positive and respectful manner to her boundaries help emphasize that you’re someone who will respect her overall. This doesn’t mean “be a respectful guy and get a sex cookie as a reward”, mind you; this means legitimately being a proponent of enthusiastic consent with everyone, regardless of whether it means you get sex or not. Creating a safer, more respectful world helps everybody feel freer to indulge their desires.

And hey, if you’re ever wondering how you can be an ethical, successful Pick-Up Artist, you can do worse than to look at Captain Jack Harkness from Doctor Who as role model.

Good luck!

Please send your questions to Dr. NerdLove at his website (www.doctornerdlove.com/contact); or to his email, doc@doctornerdlove.com

DEAR DR. NERDLOVE: To make a long story short, after a decade-long relationship that lasted from my early twenties to early thirties, I’m now dating again. I’m a straight woman in a major urban area. I’ve been relying primarily on dating apps, which has had some ups and downs. I recently met a really nice guy and we’ve gone on a couple dates. He’s been very respectful, attentive, and has never pressured me in any way. He’s actually a breath of fresh air in comparison to some of the other guys I’ve met from the apps.

Except (there’s always an except, right?) that on occasion he has espoused incel-type beliefs and terminology, including the 80-20 thing (that the top eighty percent women are drawn to the top twenty percent of guys), made a joke about how that’s why women always pick the a

holes, and talked about Chads when I was sharing some of my funny dating app-related disasters. (It came up organically in the conversation.) I’m frankly confused. He’s an intelligent, good-looking guy, a good conversationalist, and overall a fun date. He doesn’t come across as being misogynistic at all, but I’m worried that if I continue going down this route and become invested, I may discover too late that’s he holds really toxic beliefs about women. I’m not sure if he’s sort of part of the less extreme wing of that community, a full-blown incel, or just a nice guy who’s been kicked around a little and taken comfort in some of the incels’ self-comforting fantasies without realizing how toxic they come across as being to other people. Whenever the subject comes up, he’s very straightforward about it as though relaying a normal fact about life, and doesn’t act ashamed or embarrassed at all. He’s older than me and hasn’t mentioned much about his dating history.

At this point in my life, I know better than to do battle with someone’s beliefs, and it’s not like he’s a long-standing friend or family member so I would be justified in making that type of intervention. The easiest thing to do would be to walk away, but I like him. I also know that I’m gun-shy due to some of my own past baggage, mostly related to how my long-term ex treated me, so I’m not sure if I’m looking for an excuse not to commit and avoid being hurt again. Since you’re a guy, I thought you might have a better take on this than me. What do you think?

Does That Make Me Stacy?

DEAR DOES THAT MAKE ME STACY: There’s a variation of the philosophical aphorism Occam’s Razor called Hanlon’s Razor: “Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.” The idea of this philosophy is that what sometimes can seem like malicious, even cruel behavior is often the result of someone sitting on the spectrum ranging from blissful ignorance to being a complete f*cking idiot. According to this philosophy, people who might seem motivated by cruelty — and thus may be a lost cause — may, in reality just be ignorant and/or dumb, which is correctable. It doesn’t change the harm that they’ve done, but it does change what the appropriate and most effective response would be.

In this case, I’m going to propose a variation on this principle: don’t assume membership in a well-known group by use of their language when it could be equally explained by being Extremely Online.

One of the odder outcomes of the near universality of the Internet has been the rise and acceptance of memes — not image macros with weird or banal quotes on them but memetic ideas and beliefs, whose spread and integration mimic the behavior of viruses. Concepts, beliefs and phrases that used to be a sort of in-group marker spread to the general populace via social media and become part of the accepted vernacular, sometimes seemingly overnight. You can see this as phrases and iconography that used to be exclusive to African-American culture, drag queen culture, even forums like 4chan and Reddit make their way into general use by… pretty much everyone. They latch on and just become part of the everyday discourse of daily life, even though it seems like literally nobody was saying it the day before.

GamerGate? Pizzagate? Qanon? These are examples of memetic ideas that started out exclusively on 4chan and Reddit before reaching a critical mass in the mainstream.

But using those words or phrases doesn’t necessarily equate with actually being a member of that group; in many cases folks who talk about spilling the tea, for example, have no idea where the phrase came from. They just know what it means and they like using it. Most people don’t know that the phrase “shipping” — used to mean wanting to see two characters in a story, movie or tv series enter into a romantic relationship — came from X-Files fandom back in the 90’s; it’s just in common enough use that you see it all over the place. It’s rarely intentional; more often than not, somebody used in-group jargon in a non-in-group space and the phrase or concept functionally slipped it’s leash and escaped into the wild.

It’s entirely possible that this is the case with your friend. If he’s someone who spends a decent amount of time online, especially on Twitter or sites like Reddit or Tumblr, the odds are good that he’s encountered some of the phrases and concepts you’ve described completely independent of their communities of origin. The 80/20 rule, for example, is a mutation of an economic principle known as the Pareto Principle: the idea that 80% of your effects is the result of 20% of your causes. While this was coined to describe land ownership in 19th century Italy and economic disparity in general, it has since been applied to damn near everything under the sun. Applying it to dating — the idea that 20% of men get 80% of the women — incredibly popular in various permutations of the Men’s Rights community, including Pick-Up Artist and Red Pill communities or the Men Going Their Own Way groups. These communities tend to be incredibly vocal — even evangelical in some cases — so it’s certainly possible for your friend to have seen this via casual web browsing. The same is true about the whole Chad/Incel comparison; after Elliot Roger and Alec Minassian’s murder sprees, more people have become increasingly aware of not just the incel community, but their bizarre logic and belief system. Images get shared on Twitter and Instagram for others to point and gawk at, sites like We Hunted the Mammoth document their behavior online, newspapers and magazines dedicate column inches to the phenomena, subreddits spring up to talk about it all, and the jargon eventually penetrates into the mainstream.

So it’s not impossible that he’s come across all of this without having actually been part of those communities. Even bringing it up in casual conversation could be more about who he hangs out with and what they talk about than it is an indicator of his beliefs. I spend a lot of time in sex educator and fandom circles, and I have to remind myself regularly that not everybody is going to know what the hell I’m talking about when it comes to things like “compersion” or various fandom slang terms I picked up from TVTropes.

(This gets especially fun when people I know talk about doing CBT. I always have to ask WHICH CBT they’re referring to…)

That doesn’t mean that he’s not a member of those groups either… but it doesn’t have to be a binary “he’s an incel/not an incel” choice.

As a general rule of thumb, I advocate a policy of “deeds, not words” when it comes to trying to determine someone’s character. The way someone behaves is a much clearer indication of who they are as a person than what they say or the language they use. Someone might, for example, be supportive of LGBTQ people but use slurs to refer to them… often because it’s just what everyone around them says, or because they don’t realize that those are slurs. Similarly, someone might say all the right things to indicate that they’re pro-feminism and pro-social-justice, but their behavior makes it clear that they’re trying to use being a “feminist” as a way of getting into somebody’s pants.

This is why the axiom of “never date someone who’s rude to the waitstaff” is a valuable one; it’s a better indicator of who they are as a person than any pretty words or speeches.

In this case, your date’s said some things that, understandably, set off your Spidey-sense. On the other hand, the way he behaves indicates he’s a fairly stand-up guy. And while God knows there are plenty of Crouching Nice Guy/Hidden Douchebags out there who hide the s

tty side of their personalities until people are more invested in them, I’d err on the side of giving him the benefit of the doubt.

That does not, however, mean that you shouldn’t listen to your instincts. It might not be a bad idea to take a “trust, but verify” stance and see what can find out about him outside of your dates. Googling his name, seeing what he’s like on any public-facing social media profiles… all of that’s pretty SOP in dating in this day and age. You can learn more about somebody through their Instagram and Twitter feed than through an hour’s conversation after all.

I think there’re worse things you can do than give him a chance. If you do go on another date with him, you could always ask him about some of those things and see if you can draw him out. Does he really believe the whole 80/20 thing, what does he mean by “Chads”, and so on. How he responds may give you a better idea of where he stands than just going over the transcript of your previous conversations like it’s the Zapruder film.

But at the end of the day, what ultimately matters is whether you feel comfortable with him or not, regardless of what you do or don’t find. If you just don’t feel comfortable, even after a conversation or two, or doing a deep dive into his online presence? Then really, there’s nothing wrong with saying “Hey, this isn’t working for me, peace out Cub Scout”.

Good luck. And write back to let us know how it’s all going.

Please send your questions to Dr. NerdLove at his website (www.doctornerdlove.com/contact); or to his email, doc@doctornerdlove.com

DEAR DR. NERDLOVE: My wife and I are in a difficult situation, and I hoped you could offer some perspective. We have a mutual friend (let’s call him S), who I met through ballroom dancing (S and I are both dance instructors), and have known for about 7 years now. My wife has been taking lessons with S for about a year, and they are most of the way through a showcase performance they’ve been working on. Yesterday, she came home and told me the following story:

She was midway through her lesson with S, when she mentioned she was going to have breast reduction surgery. He “jokingly” expressed sadness at this, and added, “I’ll have to grab one before that happens as a farewell.” She felt uncomfortable, but laughed it off, as their relationship is based on humour and sometimes a bit of harmless flirting. Then later, still in the (empty) studio, he DID grab one. And then laughed it off like it was part of the joke. My wife was understandably shocked, and couldn’t come up with anything more than a passive-aggressive response. She allowed the lesson to finish to avoid the risk of things turning ugly.

A few other important details:

1. This is not the first time he’s done something like this: He was previously inappropriate towards her one night a couple years ago when we were at his place and got drunk on too much scotch – he apologized afterwards, and she didn’t see him for several months. I also just found out he’d previously behaved inappropriately towards another instructor, but management defended him when she tried to out him (he’s a big money-maker at the studio).

2. It’s possible that his actions were captured on the security camera. I want to have the tapes pulled (as far as I’m concerned, our friendship is over), but my wife is still sorting out what she wants to do and I’m letting her take the lead on this one (while still offering advice, of course).

So I guess the question is, what’s the appropriate response to this? My wife feels terrible because she wishes she could have stood up for herself more, and she definitely wants to cut ties but is also frustrated because of how much work went into the dance routine they made together. I’m being as supportive as I can, while trying to figure out how to not punch him in the face when I inevitably see him at work. We even had a tabletop session planned with other friends this weekend, and I’m trying to figure out a graceful way to just bow out of it. My wife said she’s fine if I just behave like everything’s normal, but I’m not buying it, and it’s not possible anyway.

Any clarity you can offer would be wonderful, thank you.

- Furious Husband

DEAR FURIOUS HUSBAND: First and foremost: I’m so sorry this happened to your wife, and your wife should forgive herself for her reaction to this. Her reaction to de-escalate the situation with a passive-aggressive comment is an incredibly common one. There were a lot of factors at play in that scenario. For starters, there’s the pure shock that this happened out of the clear blue sky. Many times when incidents like this happen, the brain vapor locks; it’s so unexpected and so out of the ordinary that it’s difficult to believe it’s actually happening. By the time your brain reboots and accepts that yes, this s

thead grabbed your boob, he’s already pulled back and started laughing about it and while your glands are dumping adrenaline into your bloodstream that causes your muscles to stiffen up and your senses to sharpen.

If you’re not used to this sensation, it’s incredibly stressful. It’s part of why our response to danger is fight, flight or freeze. It’s also why first responders, police officers and soldiers all train for emergency scenarios and women’s self-defense classes run drills with simulated attacks and rapists. All that practice is to train people to respond when their adrenaline kicks in; their brains may lock up but they’ve practiced so often their bodies respond automatically. If you’re not used to having been grabbed or groped like that, the odds are greater that you’re going to freeze instead. And that’s perfectly normal.

Then there’s the fact that she’s alone with him in an empty studio. And while they may be friends with a long history together, the combination of his sudden decision to grope her and the fact that he’s almost certainly larger, heavier and stronger than her is going to put her in an uncomfortable position. On the one hand, yeah they’ve known each other for years, so there’s a presumed level of trust… but on the other hand, he just violated her trust and boundaries and seems to think it’s funny. If she makes him angry, there’s a non-zero chance that things could escalate very gooddamn quickly in ways that would make things much worse.

So while I can completely understand your wife’s disappointment in herself, the fact of the matter is that she didn’t do anything wrong. She was dealing with a situation she’s never been in before and had an entirely normal and natural reaction to it.

Similarly, I can understand the desire to haul off and deck the guy, PH, but as tempting as it is, it will only make things worse. One of the ugly truths about this sort of sexual assault — and it is assault — is how rarely people will take it seriously. I can’t count the number of times I’ve heard women complain about guys getting grabby and being told to laugh it off, that it wasn’t that big of a deal or that if she didn’t slap him right then and there or immediately report him to someone, then it couldn’t have been that bad. And, straight talk: the odds are good that this is exactly what you would hear from people if you smacked the taste out of his mouth. All that would happen is that you’d get fired and your ex-friend would go on blithely wondering why you freaked out on him over what just wasn’t that big of a deal.

What you both should do is cut this guy loose with the quickness. While I can understand her hesitancy, what with all that time she put into her dance routine, that’s just the sunk-cost fallacy kicking in. This isn’t the first time he’s been grossly inappropriate to her. Once is forgivable,  if he’s made a good faith effort to make amends, change his behavior and ensure that it never happens again. Twice — three, if you count the gross comment he made before he groped her — is a sign that this dude needs to be kicked to the curb with the trash. He’s had his chance and s

t got worse. It’s time for him to go.

I do think that, if she feels safe doing so, that your wife should let him know just why he’s persona non grata in your lives now. He should know that his exile from your life is entirely his fault. Not only will this help your wife feel like she’s gotten something back after what he did, but it helps cut off any rationalization he might have about his actions. If you were to confront him about this first, he might think that it couldn’t be that bad because your wife didn’t say anything. Her telling him off cuts the legs of that defense right out from under him. It’ll drive home that actions have consequences and that what he did was unacceptable and it might inspire him to get his s

t together and hopefully never grab the boob of someone who hasn’t given him boob-grabbing permission.

You, on the other hand, can be colder than a penguin’s ass to him at work. If he comes to talk to you, tell him to piss off. If he wants to talk it out with you, then shut that s

t down; you’re not the person he needs to apologize to, your wife is. And frankly she may not be in a forgiving mood, which is entirely her right.

As for the tabletop session… go ahead and come up with a reason you can’t make it. I wouldn’t tell them why unless and until your wife gives you clearance to talk about it. This is her story, after all, and it’s her right to decide how it gets rolled out and to whom.

If he’s a regular member of this group, then it may be worth telling the others that you and he are on the outs and you’re not comfortable with him around right now. If they want details, all you have to say is that he’s done some stuff that was unacceptable; that’s all they need to know until your wife gives you the OK to talk about it. And if they don’t feel like that this is enough to cut him loose or feel like they don’t want to have the drama of kicking him out… then, as much as it may suck, it may be time to find a different gaming group.

Good luck.

Please send your questions to Dr. NerdLove at his website (www.doctornerdlove.com/contact); or to his email, doc@doctornerdlove.com