DEAR DR. NERDLOVE: A lot of discussions and articles about creepiness often say many things on what not to do. It starts to feel like “Here are 30,00 ways to not approach or flirt with women, don’t do any of them and you have a chance at not being evil”. And it also gets worse when there are also many things that just MIGHT be creepy, and that’s even worse when you’re not good at reading body language, and it makes any social anxiety or self-doubting you may have get even worse.

So what are some examples of ways to approach and flirt with women that are definitely not creepy?

Creep-Anxious Dude

DEAR CREEP-ANXIOUS DUDE: Before we get to your specifics, CAD, I want to talk a little about creepers and the people who obsess about them.

It really shouldn’t be much of a surprise that this question is something that comes up a lot around here. And, to be quite honest, almost every time it comes up, there’re a few dozen people who want to argue about just what makes someone creepy. More often than not, they’re coming from a place of “it’s not fair that I get called creepy but this other person doesn’t.” This inevitably leading to the usual arguments about whether women are creep-shaming dudes , whether being creepy is just about being unattractiveand general lamenting that men just “aren’t allowed to approach women anymore“.

The problem is that almost all of these focus on the wrong things. A lot of the complaints about the supposed stresses of avoiding being an accidental creeper tend to come from people who are complaining about how concerns about being creepy makes it harder for them to approach women. And while I am sympathetic, the reason for understanding what makes somebody creepy isn’t about “your not being evil”, it’s about understanding that men and women have radically different experiences when it comes to dating and meeting people. Men worry about harsh rejections. Women worry about getting raped or murdered.

Guys who display creepy behavior tend to be exhibiting behavior that sets off people’s Spidey-senses. The guy who stands too close, who ignores the signs that someone isn’t interested or doesn’t want to take “I have to go” for an answer all suggest that they may see boundaries and consent as things that happen to other people. Someone who makes sexual or inappropriate comments may not understand the social rules or may be testing to see what they can get away with. Even asking seemingly innocent “getting to know you” questions can, in the wrong context, seem like they’re gathering information.

Now, in fairness, there could be perfectly innocent and understandable reasons behind all of those examples, ranging from some basic social awkwardness to misreading the scene to just not getting why what’s normal for a guy may be threatening for a woman. But they might not be innocent or harmless. That ambiguity puts women into an incredibly awkward position: do they risk being rude? Or do they risk being dead?

This is why the primary key to not being a creeper is basic empathy. The problem is that for a lot of folks, this is just one burden too heavy to bear. It gets in the way of “BUT WE WANTS IT, PRECIOUS.” It creates more scenarios where they may not get what they want… even though practicing some empathy might improve their chances.

But it’s not that all guys who complain or obsess about creepers and creepiness are guys who don’t care about anything other than getting their piece of ass. There are also folks who are a little too empathetic. They’re the ones who have so much anxiety about it that they end up with a form of hypervigilance. Their anxiety makes them get too deep into their own heads. They overthink everything because they’ve convinced themselves that setting one toe wrong is going to end up with screams and a visit from the slap fairy.

And not even a big toe. Just a little one. A pinkie toe.

Which brings us back to your question, CAD. I can’t give you the answer you’re looking for because you’re coming at this from the wrong place. You’re not asking me about how to not be creepy so much as you’re asking me to relieve your anxieties about it. It’s in the way you describe the situation – from the 30,oo ways to be creepy and the things that might be creepy. You’re in that place where you’re going to overthink everything you do and read too much into everything. I mean, anything can be creepy if you approach it from the right angle. You just have to watch the fan edits that turn kid’s classics like Mary Poppins into a horror movie.

What you need to do, more than anything else, is take a deep breath and relax. Don’t look at this as your being on trial or women are looking for the tiniest thing to call you a creeper and kick you to the curb. Trust me: women are on your side. They want guys the guys they meet to be cool and worth talking to. The women who are looking for a potential boyfriend are hoping that you’re going to be the right one for them.

Taking a moment to look at things from someone else’s perspective – and accepting the validity of their fears and experiences – is really all it takes to avoid 99% of what makes someone creepy when you’re approaching them. This doesn’t mean that you have to be super-woke or so safe that you’re as exciting as white bread and mayo. It just means that you need to put a little thought into things. And even if you do make a mistake, you can pull things back. If you realize you’re pinging her creep radar, then stop. Apologize, take a step back (literally, if necessary) and show through your actions that it was a simple mistake.

Beyond that: learn your flirting style and finding the women you’re most compatible with. The more you are on the same page on the major issues, the easier and more effortless the flirting will be.

You got this, CAD.

Good luck.

DEAR DR. NERDLOVE: I am a 35 year old heterosexual American woman. I haven’t dated/had sex in 8 years.

For a long time in my life, I was attracted to and dated men that I found intellectually awesome, kind and gentle, and able to make me laugh. My pattern was always the same. I would meet a man and immediately find him charming, wait a little to see if the charm wore off, and if it didn’t, I would ask him out.

About 10 years ago, I was sexually assaulted by one of these guys. Initially, I dealt with it poorly (lots of casual sex, no relationships), but I was able to get myself to therapy and have worked through it. I can genuinely say that I am ready to date again. Now I have a lot of interests outside of work where I meet men. I play sports, I work out, I go to social dances regularly, I volunteer for a nonprofit and for my church.

Here is the problem. The dating landscape seems to have changed radically. I have a hard time meeting men in person. Most men that I meet are married. I am now on several dating apps, but I find that my usual pattern doesn’t work anymore. Men that I think are cool on the app end up being boring, or extremely sexually aggressive. Plus, I find it difficult to ‘like’ men who are not conventionally attractive. When I meet a man in person, I like the ‘weird’ looking guys (to me I think they are cute, not weird, but people have told me that the guys I like are weird.) . But online I end up being shallow.

Is there anyway to reframe my behavior on the apps, or to change my approach to meeting men in person? How do I get in the game?

Thank you,

Too Late to Date

DEAR TOO LATE TO DATE: First of all, TLTD, I’m so sorry this happened to you. I’m proud of how much work you’ve put into your recovery and how far you’ve come. It says a lot about your strength and courage that you’ve made so much progress.

So let’s talk about how to best maximize your chances of meeting someone awesome. To start with, you’re doing a lot of things right. As a general rule, I advocate mixing up how you meet potential partners. I’m a big believer that meeting people in person and being on the right dating apps is the best way to tilt the odds in your favor. However, to make this process work for you efficiently and correctly, you have to make sure you’re following some best practices.

Take, for example, the married men you’re meeting. Part of this may be simple demographics; according to the US Census bureau, around 65% of 35 year olds are married. As a result, single people in general are going to be thinner on the ground. But this doesn’t necessarily mean that you’re out of luck, or that you’re meeting the wrong people. While the men you’re currently meeting may be married, they have friends who aren’t. Friends who you may be interested in. Cultivating these married men and building your social circle is how you gain access to other people’s social circles. That, in turn, gives you the chance to meet the folks who are right for you.

But what about your dating apps? Well, my first question would be to ask which apps you’re on. Different dating apps have different cultures and encourage different kinds of relationships. Tinder is faster-paced and more hook-up focused. OKCupid is more of a free-for-all, but with an eye towards casual relationships. An app like Bumble or Hinge may serve you better. It doesn’t eliminate on the sh

ty behavior – assh

es are always going to ass – but the culture of the apps are more relationship-oriented.

There’s also the fact that apps tend to hit that weird psychological quirk known as “the paradox of choice”. The more choices we have, the less happy we are because we get hit with FOMO. Yes, these are all good options… but what if there’s one that’s even better? Can you be sure that you’re getting the best possible option? What if you commit to one person and realize another possibility may hit more of your checklist?

Unfortunately, there is no way of avoiding this, outside of limiting your potential choices through filters. What you need to do instead is move things off the apps and into real life. For all that we live in an increasingly digital society, we are bad at connecting with each other online. We’re built for in-person interaction, and there are layers of nuance and communication that simply can’t come across digitally.

Which, in fact, is part of why you like the weirder guys in person and not on the apps. In person, you are seeing them as holistic beings, not just a bad picture and what they wrote in their profile. Yes they may be a little unconventional, but you’re seeing much more of them. You’re picking up on other signals, signals that can’t come through the digital lines. You don’t get a feel for the timbre of their voice or the way that they smell. You can’t see the way that they shift their weight when they’re thinking or the little unconscious gestures they make. All you have are pictures and text and, frankly, a lot of guys aren’t great at conveying their personality through text.

And they’re even worse at taking pictures.

So, TL;DR: you’re on the right track. The key is – as I often tell guys – to look a few steps beyond the people you’re meeting initially. They may not be your future Princes Charming, but they very well may be the person who leads you to them. And as for online dating: make sure the apps you’re using match up with your relationship goals and personality and be more decisive. If you have good rapport going with someone, meet up for a pre-date date – a 15 minute meet-up for coffee or frozen yogurt or something in order to do your dating due diligence. Are they who they say they are? Do you have good chemistry in person? Do you feel safe around them? If yes, then make a plan for meeting up for a proper date.

Not many people will tell you this, but dating is often as much a numbers game as it is about chemistry or compatibility. Meeting the right people is always a gamble. But if you play the game correctly, you can tilt the odds in your favor.

Good luck.

Please send your questions to Dr. NerdLove at his website (www.doctornerdlove.com/contact); or to his email, doc@doctornerdlove.com)

DEAR DR. NERDLOVE: I’m a 28 year old straight female who just got out of a 10 year emotional and physically abusive relationship and I realize that a lot of relationship advice hindered my ability to leave.

I woke up to the fact that what I was experiencing wasn’t “normal” and was able to extricate myself from a very harmful situation, but now in the post mortem, I’m questioning what had happened and how I stayed in something that was so obviously bad for me for so long. 

A part of it is simply not knowing what was normal. You don’t see couples fighting or making up so its hard to know what kinds of things happen on the inside. I always felt like it was normal to be yelled at and called names when my husband got his feelings hurt or was feeling stressed out, and I just felt like it was my own self control that made it so I didn’t do those things back to him. I’m actually thankful for the physical abuse in some twisted way because I KNEW that wasn’t normal and after massive bruises, I had the courage to leave. 

I also have a problem because in our cultural narrative of an abuser, they are someone who is cunning and planning. They know what they are doing and are going for a specific reaction, while my husband’s abuse seemed more about his emotions getting out of control and him reacting in an awful way. This convinced me that he wasn’t an abuser for a long time. 

But another part of it was reading about relationship advice. It seemed like most of what I was reading was telling people to not be so picky, that nobody is perfect, there is no “one”, that all couples fight, and it felt like maybe the types of things happening in my relationship were just the normal trials of coupledom. Wanting more felt like I was asking for too much. Yes “All couples fight” but do all couples resort to insults, put downs and swearing? 

I guess long story short, I’m starting to venture out into the dating world and I’m wondering how I can reconcile “these are normal couple fights and problems” with getting in over my head with someone who is an abuser and would take advantage of me? There were dozens of red flags and moments where alarm bells should have (and did) go off in my mind telling me to leave, but I always gave the benefit of the doubt, much to my detriment. 

Thanks for your time

Confused About ‘Normal’

DEAR CONFUSED ABOUT NORMAL: Alright CAN I have to start this off by telling you how unbelievably proud I am of you for getting the hell out of that situation. Don’t punish yourself for not knowing that you were in an abusive relationship sooner than you did. You got out and you’ve been healing. That’s the important part. The fact that you want to make sure it doesn’t happen to you again? Also incredibly important. I’ll say it again: I’m proud of you for getting out of there.

Now, let’s talk a little about how to recognize an abusive relationship.

Yeah, people in relationships fight to one degree or another. It’s pretty much an inevitability in any relationship – platonic or otherwise – that doesn’t involve clones or stuffed animals. You have two (or more) people, which means you’ve got two (or more) opinions. Sometimes those opinions are going to conflict. Sometimes the conflict can be loud and unpleasant. For some couples, their dynamic is a more or less continual chain of explosions – big blow-ups followed by big make-ups. For others, it’s intense discussions. But there’s arguing about, say, who gets to decide what to watch on Netflix and emotional abuse.

I’ve written before about toxic and abusive relationships before, but one of the keys is simply: how do you feel about your partner? Do you feel like you can never do anything right and that they’re always blaming you for things that go wrong? Are they always undermining you, cutting you down, reminding you of how useless you are or how you should be grateful that you’re with them? Do you feel like you have to apologize for them to others because they “don’t understand”? Do they make you constantly question your own judgement and worry that you’re overreacting or making too much out of an issue? Are you afraid of them? These are all signs of abuse. You know this. Your own Spidey-Sense was telling you this was a bad scene. But let’s be honest here: it’s understandable that you brushed off your own alarm bells. Women are socialized constantly to question their own judgement, to believe their instincts are wrong and to give people the benefit of the doubt.

Now let’s talk a little about your husband’s behavior and the behavior of abusers. A lot of people, men and women both, will blame their abusive partner’s behavior on their temper and say that it wasn’t directed, just them flipping out. The first thing I’d want to know – and if you want, you can write back in or tell me in the comments – is when he flipped out, did he ever break, damage or threaten his own possessions? Because I’m willing to bet a fair amount of money that no, he did not.  A lot of abusers will use the appearance of a temper to help obscure the true meaning behind their behavior. It’s not that he’s abusing you, it’s just that he’s got a hair-trigger and you should’ve known better, etc.

Part of what makes this work in their favor is that most of us don’t want to admit that we may be in an abusive relationship. We all want to think that we’d never let that happen to us, that we could recognize it and get the hell out as soon as we saw the first hints that things may not be kosher. This mentality – which is pretty damn universal – is part of what leads to people saying “he doesn’t mean to hurt me,” in all seriousness. We are very, very good at convincing ourselves to continue believing what we already want to believe… and nobody wants to believe that they’re in love with a monster. We tell ourselves that “this is just what relationships are like”, and that it’s not that unusual or that bad. You get used to it, you learn how to avoid it, life’s OK as long as you’re very, very careful.

Abusers know this. And they will deliberately use this against their victims. The more they can keep things murky enough, the more we will try to assume the best possible motivation behind it. It can be very hard to break out of that mindset and realize that you’re being abused.

However, let us, for the sake of argument assume that it’s true – that he wasn’t deliberately targeting you. That he really was some sort of rage-monster, thrashing about randomly whenever he Hulk’s out. This is still abuse. If he’s in such a state that he can go from zero to poop-flinging gorilla and just smash anything within arm’s reach, then he is not safe to be around other people.  The fact that he would continue to assume that no, it’s ok as long as other people don’t piss him off – thus putting the burden on you to monitor him instead of getting help to fix himself is still abuse. “I lose control” is not an excuse for hurting people, physically or emotionally.

But let’s be real here: Bruce Banner types like this are so goddamn rare as to be rage-unicorns. Abusers may not be mustache-twirling cartoon villains or supremely calculating Hannibal Lecter types but they don’t just “accidentally” abuse people. They may not have a complete road-map about what they’re doing and why, but they know damn good and well that they’re behaving in a way that pushes their victims to do what the abuser wants. The “I just get so angry I can’t help myself” dance – usually with an encore performance of “Oh god I’m so sorry, I’m scum, I’m awful, you should get away from me” self-flagellating immediately after is a very, very common display. It’s especially insidious because even the breast-beating, cloth-rending apology puts the onus on you; it’s designed to make you comfort them for their bad behavior. They get you coming and going and keep you off balance.

And then they’re on their best behavior, convincing you that maybe this time they’re sincere. For a while. And then it all happens again.

Is this because they’ve got everything planned out to a fare-thee-well? Not always. But they know that it works and they will use it again and again and again.

In case it isn’t clear, I want to make this very, unbelievably obvious and I want you to write this down somewhere prominent so you can see it every goddamn day: it’s not your fault. Your husband was an abusive bastard. You didn’t make him abuse you. You aren’t at fault because you didn’t see things or listen to your instincts. You aren’t to blame because you didn’t recognize it earlier or because you didn’t leave before you did. It. Is. Not Your. Fault. Nothing excuses abuse. “Nobody’s perfect” doesn’t mean you should put up with someone mistreating you. Not wanting a partner who puts you down, intimidates you or hurts you isn’t “being too picky”, it’s the very definition of “comes standard with all models”.  All couples may fight but insults, threats and emotional manipulation are all signs that things are wrong and it’s time to go.

You have your instincts, CaN and they’re clearly good ones. You just have to trust yourself and let yourself listen to them.

Good luck. And write back to let us know how you’re doing.

DEAR DR. NERDLOVE: I’m a software engineer in research. Fair amount of people wear jeans and polos and button down shirts. Some wear khakis and button down shirts. I’ve lost 30 pounds (now 5’11 and 170 lbs) and am now able to wear tucked button down shirts. What I want to do is avoid a corporate drone look, so I’ve been wearing slim bonobo stone khakis, nicer slim fit shirts (I have a v shape torso) that are patterned. It does look sharper. Would this be considered overdressed?

Indeed with respect to jeans and polos/sport shirts, this is a nicer or “dressed up” and for those that wear khakis and solid ill fitted shirts it’s sharper. But it’s not like I’m wearing a sport coat or tie and others do wear khakis etc. Should I dress better everyday? Or should I just go with nicer jeans and button downs – more of a subtle sharp?

Damn, I do notice women do like a sharper look. I spent a fair amount of time in corduroy and untucked polos (to hide the weight). Is it normal to feel a little weird – it’s an abrupt upgrade – when you start to dress better? I hear have “confidence”. I know it looks sharp – so I should feel confident, but I feel it’s vain & not to mention attention getting. As for getting attention, oddly it is something that I wanted; now that I have it, it does feel a little uncomfortable. While most people wear $40 shirts, some of mine are $60-$80 – so this would be considered money ill spent in their minds.

My manager laughs at me when I dress sharper. My coworkers, looks me up and down as if it’s inappropriate. FYI: This is research in a large stodgy American car company.

Upping the sartorial game is influenced by boy scout mentality – always be prepared. So outside of work when I go to the mall or get gas or shopping or just go to a company event I definitely am getting looks by women – they love it (I think). On the other hand, it’s a step above the others and it at times is uncomfortable. But at the same time, I mean – really – do you really need to look sharp sitting a keyboard? Should I stay the course?

All Dressed Up

DEAR ALL DRESSED UP: There are actual, measurable benefits to dressing up sharp at work, ADU. People aren’t kidding when they say clothes maketh the man. The way you dress affects the way others see and behave towards you, the way you feel about yourself and even the way you perform at work. Studies have found that casual dress-codes may be good for worker morale, but they’re not necessarily that great for actual productivity or conduct.

I mean, look at how you’ve changed. Before you were dressing in a way to hide – your clothing was an outer expression of the dissatisfaction you felt with yourself. Now you’re dressing to stand out – your clothes are an outward expression and reinforcement of the newfound confidence you’re feeling, and you’re noticing the benefits. You feel better, people notice and pay attention… this is all to the good. These aren’t even terribly significant changes – you’re following the basic rule of “dress a little cooler than everyone else”.

The conflict you’re feeling comes from the fact that you’re trying to break the habit of years. Like I said: before you were dressing to hide yourself. The fact that you now feel some pride in your appearance is so different from before that you worry that you’re worried that it’s slipping into pure vanity. Chinos and a well-fitting button-down shirt are hardly an extravagance; it’s not like you’re rolling in dressed to work at Sterling Cooper after all. It’s just a slight step up from the people around you and that makes you stand out. It’s fine to take pride in how you look. As long as it doesn’t turn into an attitude of “I’m so much better than those slobs” or you’re not buying clothes you can’t afford, then it’s really not a problem.

Now, why are your co-workers giving you crap? To start with, some people are unnerved by change – even when it’s change for the better. We all slot people into categories and when they no longer fit our mental short-hand it can feel uncomfortable. Some may think that you’re putting on airs and implying that your better than they are – especially if they’re the tees-and-jeans crowd. Still others don’t like it when people they know improve themselves – the fact that people close to them are able to make changes and do better puts their lives and choices into stark relief and would rather pull other people down to their level than to work to improve.

Right now, there’re more benefits to the way you’re dressing than drawbacks. Unless the way you dress – and the way people respond to it – is so disruptive that it’s affecting your work and/or your relationship with these people, I wouldn’t worry about it. Given some time, people will come to accept this as the new normal for you and adjust themselves accordingly.

Good luck.

Please send your questions to Dr. NerdLove at his website (www.doctornerdlove.com/contact); or to his email, doc@doctornerdlove.com)

DEAR DR. NERDLOVE: I’m a 26 year old bisexual lady and I have this friend (who I’ll call ‘Friend’) who I’ve been hanging out with for about a year and have gotten pretty close to. I always thought Friend was really beautiful but I had immediately filed her under “Attractive but married – look elsewhere for sexytimes”. Even though she flirts with me quite a lot, I always saw this as Friend being Friend and left it at that.

However, during our girls’ nights with one or two of our other friends she’s been talking about how she and her husband have been meaning to try a threesome. Her husband, who I’ve also spent a lot of time with is both incredibly gorgeous and is a generally awesome person.

So how the hell do I let them know I want in?

To me it seems like normal flirting might be ill-advised lest one or both of them take me as a potential usurper instead of as someone who has no interest in busting up an awesome couple and just wants to have some fun. So what do I do? Send them a resume? Raise my hand and go “Ooh! Ooh! Me! Me!” next time she brings it up? Over coffee and muffins should I be like “Hey…..so about that threesome….”?

How does one broach this subject exactly?

Sincerely,

Stuck Out of the Middle

DEAR STUCK OUT OF THE MIDDLE: One of the biggest obstacles for adventuresome couples looking for a threesome is actually finding that third, SOOtM. Most couples are looking for someone who’s a) safe and sane, b) willing to respect the rules (“play with both of us”, “certain things are off limits”, “everyone’s wearing masks and using fake names”) and c) who’s not going to present a threat to the relationship. The ideal fantasy partner most of the time is an attractive bisexual woman who’ll bang both partners and then conveniently disappear into the ether afterwards, sparing everybody the awkwardness of handling the aftermath… although most couples tend to focus on the “attractive bisexual woman” part, much to the annoyance of bi women in online dating sites. Bi women who’re down for a threesome with another couple are so rare that they’re commonly referred to as “unicorns”.

And here you are, a unicorn yourself, looking for an opportunity to show off that shiny pearlescent horn of yours to Friend and her husband. Problem solved, right?

Well… maybe. There’re a lot more to this than just waving your hand and going “I VOLUNTEER AS TRIBUTE!” that needs to be sorted out before the happy squishy naked time starts.

To start with, there’s the obvious question are looking for a woman or a man. If the two of them are hoping to bring a third man in to pull a Go Team Venture, then you’re not quite what they’re going to be looking for.

Then there’s the question of just how serious Friend and Husband-o are about that threesome. There’s “meaning to have a threesome” in the sense of  “Yeah, one of us wants this and the other isn’t crazy about the idea,” or “Yeah, it could be fun if all the stars come together just right but we’re not seriously pursuing the idea,” and then there’s “Yeah, we’ve been auditioning potential thirds from OKCupid and Craigslist and we just haven’t found anyone we’ve clicked with yet.” If Friend and her hubby are the former rather than the latter – more about the fantasy rather than actively pursuing it – then letting them know about your unicorn status could get a little awkward.

And then there’s the question of simple attraction. You know you’re hot as ghost-pepper chili, but Friend or Husband may not necessarily see you that way.

But as with most issues, the only way you’re going to get answers to any of these questions is to put yourself out there and find out. But as with many issues surrounding sex and friendship, if you don’t want things to get awkward, you may want to be a bit circumspect. You could be totally blunt and say “Hey, you know how you were talking about you and your husband looking to have a threesome? I will TOTALLY bang the hell out of both of you,” and perhaps they’ll appreciate the directness, but it could also end with some uncomfortable coughing and sudden changes of subject.

Instead, what you may want to do is take the indirect route of planting the seed and letting it grow on it’s own. Since you and Friend have the level of intimacy that you both feel ok with sharing aspects of your sex lives, it wouldn’t be that difficult to let slip that you’ve always wanted to try a MFF threesome. Just let it be something you share when the two of you are out having drinks – a little social lubricant (and plausible means of walking things back should things not go the way you want) that leads to a moment of “I can’t believe I’m telling you this…” that can be both coy and surprisingly enticing. By leaving out specifics (i.e. the unspoken “…with you two”) you’re giving out the idea that you’re open to this in general, planting the idea of you a potential partner in their heads and letting them think that choosing you was their idea. This way, should things not play out the way you’re hoping, everyone has the opportunity to save face and avoid the awkwardness of having the “no, they’re not really serious” or “we like you, but this could get in the way of the friendship” conversations that could result in everyone feeling embarrassed and cringey afterwards.

Plant the seed and let it grow on its own. If they decide they’re down to give it a shot, they’ll know who they should come to first.

Good luck.