life

Yet Another Reason Not to Discuss Business at the Table

Miss Manners by by Judith Martin, Nicholas Ivor Martin and Jacobina Martin
by Judith Martin, Nicholas Ivor Martin and Jacobina Martin
Miss Manners | November 26th, 2013

DEAR MISS MANNERS: How does one socialize politely with one's in-laws when they are involved in activities that I find immoral and are, at times, illegal?

I try to steer the conversation away from the illicit activities by asking questions about my husband's childhood, inquiring after their health, asking to hear about the latest antics of their pets, etc. Invariably, the talk turns toward my father-in-law's "business." He was serving a jail term related to this work when I met my husband and has now shifted his business offshore.

Even if the work is not illegal in that country (and I have my doubts), it is still illegal in the U.S. It is immoral in that he is taking advantage of a highly vulnerable group of people by endangering their health in order to make money.

He appears to believe in his work, saying that the federal government "misunderstands" him.

Should I take the viewpoint that this man is mentally ill, simply respond with a noncommittal "I see," and continue to change the subject? Mention gently that since his work has caused my husband so much pain, I'd rather not discuss it?

My mother-in-law talks about how they'll spend the anticipated windfall; my sister-in-law's family may relocate so that she can go into her father's business, while my husband and I know that it's all based on fraud.

Please rest assured that I have discussed this matter with an attorney friend, and intervened anonymously when it appeared that the law was about to be broken (and the business was disrupted for a time). Yet the question regarding polite dinner conversation remains unresolved.

GENTLE READER: Tell your in-laws that because you are concerned for their welfare, it might be best if they do not discuss business while you or your husband is present, because there is no legal privilege that would protect them from any statements you might have to give to questions if questioned by law enforcement.

In the silence that follows, Miss Manners suggests you tell them the latest antics of your own pets.

DEAR MISS MANNERS: I don't know what to do. We gather for family holiday meals with extended family. Some members spend their time texting under the table and not making any effort to interact with anyone around them. I don't want to cause a family feud. I think it is important to speak to those around you and to be engaged in the event. These are young adults.

What happened to bringing topics to the table and being prepared to share? By the way, not all of the young adults do this, just some. It is extremely uncomfortable to be sitting next to someone who is actively ignoring you.

GENTLE READER: Nor should you. Remember the children's table? You could set one up for those who do not intend to participate in adult society.

Better yet, Miss Manners recommends passing a nicely decorated Thanksgiving basket before dinner, in which to collect all electronic devices. It would be a good deed for people who would otherwise be having Thanksgiving dinner with those whom your guests are texting.

(Please send your questions to Miss Manners at her website, www.missmanners.com; to her email, dearmissmanners@gmail.com; or through postal mail to Miss Manners, Universal Uclick, 1130 Walnut St., Kansas City, MO 64106.)

life

Jump Right in During Free for All Holiday Conversation

Miss Manners by by Judith Martin, Nicholas Ivor Martin and Jacobina Martin
by Judith Martin, Nicholas Ivor Martin and Jacobina Martin
Miss Manners | November 24th, 2013

DEAR MISS MANNERS: What is proper holiday dinner conversation when the age ranges and marital statuses are mixed?

I am a single aunt who is outgoing, not introverted at all, but when I go to my sister's house for a holiday dinner, I feel excluded from the table conversation, as does my widowed mother. It's all about the kids -- and the kids are loud. When I try to introduce a topic, it doesn't stick. It always seems that family units are just not interested in anyone but themselves and their lives.

What is proper, and what can I do besides not attending? All my single friends have similar experiences.

GENTLE READER: You could probably get a football conversation going among those slumped around the television set. And if you helped dish up in the kitchen, you could get an earful about those who aren't helping.

And don't tell Miss Manners that there isn't a rousing conversation at the table about what foods are evil, and how stuffed everyone feels.

Under other circumstances, it may be possible to talk with some of these people about books or the economy or the meaning of life, but not at a family holiday dinner. That's when families bond through announcements, questions and observation.

You should be grateful that the children are rambunctious. It at least distracts the adults from demanding to know why you are single.

What you and your mother should be doing is quietly asking less offensive questions of individuals, just to show an interest in how they are getting along. It would be especially nice to do so of any child who happens to be left out of the play.

DEAR MISS MANNERS: My wife and I have been disagreeing on something for a number of years. Your response will not change anything but should clear things up.

When we visit friends or family, my wife says that we are their guests, so we should pay for dinners when we dine out. However, when those same people visit us, she then says that we are the hosts; therefore, we should pay for the restaurant meals.

We end up paying both ways. Is there a protocol for who pays and when?

GENTLE READER: If Miss Manners' reply will not change anything, and you and your wife will continue to disagree for decades yet to come, why do you ask?

But perhaps she can enable you to move on to more challenging pastimes by declaring that you are both right. Or would that make it worse?

Your wife is right that the host pays. And you are right that paying should more or less even out. The disconnect comes from your agreed-upon, but wrong, definition of the host.

It is not the person who is host to the houseguests, but the person who has issued the dinner invitation. Houseguests often ask their hosts out to dinner, in which case they pay. But if the hosts announce that dinner tonight is at Le Bistro, they should pay, or at least put forth a mild argument if the guests belatedly realize that they should have invited their hosts out.

(Please send your questions to Miss Manners at her website, www.missmanners.com; to her email, dearmissmanners@gmail.com; or through postal mail to Miss Manners, Universal Uclick, 1130 Walnut St., Kansas City, MO 64106.)

life

Mixed Signals Cause Mixed Message on Couple's First Date

Miss Manners by by Judith Martin, Nicholas Ivor Martin and Jacobina Martin
by Judith Martin, Nicholas Ivor Martin and Jacobina Martin
Miss Manners | November 21st, 2013

DEAR MISS MANNERS: I'm a single, 30-year-old gay male. Saturday night before last, I met a guy who's 12 years my senior. We spoke on the phone a few times, and on Monday he was persistent and asked me out to dinner.

When the bill came, he paid just his half. I was taken aback by this. Since he invited me, shouldn't he have at least offered to pay the whole bill?

Granted, I'm not someone who expects others to pay my way; however, good manners and etiquette dictate that the inviter/host should have paid or offered to pay. I would have offered to pay my half or the whole thing.

Am I being too old-fashioned, or does etiquette not apply to gay relationships where the passive (female) and active (male) roles do not apply?

Also, did my having him go with me to the ATM (I was short on cash and had a feeling something like this might happen) affect his decision in not offering to pay?

He's interested in me, but I don't know if I should pursue this relationship. Good manners mean a lot to me, and I don't know if can introduce him to my friends and family. After all, the first impression tells you a lot about a person.

GENTLE READER: And his first impression was of you at the ATM right before dinner. The gentleman likely assumed that either you intended to pay for your meal, or you were planning a quick getaway afterward.

You are correct that the person initiating the invitation should pay. Please forget about that active-passive angle. Everyone else has.

Your new friend could easily have been confused by your actions and not wanted to offend. Miss Manners suggests you give him the benefit of the doubt and invite him on another date. This time you should pay -- and if he protests, say, "No, no, I invited you." If he is the gentleman you hope him to be, he will understand for next time.

DEAR MISS MANNERS: What do I take to Thanksgiving dinner when the hostess said to "bring nothing"?

GENTLE READER: An appetite, good cheer, sociability toward everyone there, and an attitude of thankfulness.

DEAR MISS MANNERS: Over the years, I was taught that when setting a proper table, glassware is placed above the knives, i.e. water glass, wine glass(es). However, while attending a wine tasting and dinner, the glassware was placed above the forks, the indication being made that this was the proper setting, as set forth in the world of wine experts.

I turn to you, Miss Manners, for a point of clarification, please. Have the Certified Wine Experts changed the way we set our tables, or is the more traditional setting still proper?

GENTLE READER: As little enthusiasm as Miss Manners has for taking on the Certified Wine Experts, they do not get to trash the table settings. Besides, many -- probably nearly all -- of their very own admirers were taught as you were. Do they really want them reaching for one another's glasses?

(Please send your questions to Miss Manners at her website, www.missmanners.com; to her email, dearmissmanners@gmail.com; or through postal mail to Miss Manners, Universal Uclick, 1130 Walnut St., Kansas City, MO 64106.)

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