life

Discreet Inquiry Will Uncover Co Worker's Marital Status

Miss Manners by by Judith Martin, Nicholas Ivor Martin and Jacobina Martin
by Judith Martin, Nicholas Ivor Martin and Jacobina Martin
Miss Manners | August 16th, 2012

DEAR MISS MANNERS: How does one inquire if a woman is married or not? My friend told me to look for a wedding band on the ring finger of her left hand, but what if she is not wearing one?

Is it appropriate to inquire? I don't know the woman very well. I have talked with her briefly, and she works in a different department at work.

GENTLE READER: You should assume that she is married.

By that, Miss Manners does not mean that you need give up your hopes. She is only suggesting that you make a benign inquiry about her husband, either to her or to someone who knows her: Is he from around here, or is he in the same business? If there is no such person, that is the answer you will be given.

DEAR MISS MANNERS: My job is highly customer service-oriented, in person and on the phone. When I have been able to help callers, they usually end the conversation with, "I appreciate your help," to which I respond, "You're welcome." They then follow this with, "Thank you."

I interpret the "I appreciate your help" as a form of "Thank you," but am I wrong in responding with, "You're welcome?" I don't want callers to think I'm prompting them to say "Thank you."

Your response will be much appreciated. Thank you.

GENTLE READER: You're wel....

Oh, no! Miss Manners was caught in the same loop, trying to jump in between your two statements of appreciation. And the conventional response to such appreciation is "You're welcome," although it is rapidly losing ground to "No problem."

The latter would solve your problem, but you should be aware that it annoys some people. A less pat way of saying it would be, "I was glad to be able to help."

DEAR MISS MANNERS: My husband's high school class is having its 40-year reunion this summer. We have gone twice in the past, mainly because it gave him a chance to reconnect with an old girlfriend with whom he remained close.

I had no problems with the friendship -- she was lovely -- but I generally got stuck trying to hold a conversation with her drug-addled husband while the two of them reminisced.

Sadly, his friend passed away a few years ago, so I thought this issue would go away, but he wants to attend this year. I know no one from the group, and I find myself not liking the person that Hubby becomes when we go. He tends to exaggerate his accomplishments to the point where I hardly recognize the life he describes as one I have shared for 38 years.

I have asked if he'd mind if I didn't attend and he said no, but am I being a terrible person and a bad wife by not wanting to spend most of a weekend being bored and irritated at this event?

GENTLE READER: Your husband doesn't mind, the reunion committee doesn't care, so why are you asking Miss Manners? Please stay home and have a good time.

(Please send your questions to Miss Manners at her website, www.missmanners.com; to her email, dearmissmanners@gmail.com; or through postal mail to Miss Manners, Universal Uclick, 1130 Walnut St., Kansas City, MO 64106.)

life

Uncomfortable Question May Require Candid Response

Miss Manners by by Judith Martin, Nicholas Ivor Martin and Jacobina Martin
by Judith Martin, Nicholas Ivor Martin and Jacobina Martin
Miss Manners | August 14th, 2012

DEAR MISS MANNERS: What is the proper way for a woman to respond to a man telling her that his wife won't have sex with him? It happens frequently, and I feel like I should listen to his problems like a friend, but at the same time I think he is trying to get me to take up her slack.

GENTLE READER: That would be Miss Manners' guess, prissy though she is. And few people appreciate how handy being prissy can be.

The prissy response would be, "I don't think she would appreciate your telling me this." But if you're not happy with that, try, "I suppose you're telling me this as a friend because you want me to talk to her about it and find out what the problem is."

DEAR MISS MANNERS: I have a same-gender spouse. Several years ago, we had a commitment ceremony and pledged our lives to each other. It was attended by our extended families and friends. Both of my sisters took part in the ceremony, and their husbands and children were present to witness the event.

For our honeymoon, John and I flew out of state and had a legal marriage ceremony. Unfortunately, our marriage is not recognized by our home state, but I thought that our relationship, at least, was recognized by our families.

The daughter of one of my sisters will soon be getting married. This week I received a "save the date" card from my niece. The envelope was addressed to me only, and the enclosed RSVP card was in my name only. There was not even an indication that I was allowed to bring a guest!

John and I are both hurt by the omission, and I have no intention of attending a family wedding from which he seems to have been rather pointedly excluded. I would like to make my position clear, but wish to avoid rudeness and unnecessary family drama. In order to accomplish these goals, I would like to send a letter to my niece, and I hope to receive your guidance.

The letter I have in mind would be something like: "Dear ---, I recently received your save-the-date card. Although John's name was overlooked, we are both delighted with the news of your upcoming wedding. Regrettably, it appears as though we will be unable to attend; however, we wish you as much joy in your ceremony as we had, and as much happiness as we continue to have."

What are your thoughts? Are John and I overreacting? Would such a letter be appropriate?

GENTLE READER: How can a letter not be appropriate when it wishes the recipient happiness, gives her a prompt answer (although a save-the-date notice doesn't really require one), and, in saying that your husband was "overlooked," provides your niece with a grateful out?

Miss Manners will even write the proper response for her: "My dear Uncle, I am mortified that John's name was omitted -- please ask him to accept my humble apologies. I can only imagine that in my silly bridal confusion, I must have used the family directory from before we knew him. Of course I want my uncle-by-marriage at the wedding. I will continue to hope that when the time comes, you and he will have been able to alter your plans in order to attend.

"Meanwhile, I send you both my love."

(Please send your questions to Miss Manners at her website, www.missmanners.com; to her email, dearmissmanners@gmail.com; or through postal mail to Miss Manners, Universal Uclick, 1130 Walnut St., Kansas City, MO 64106.)

life

Texting a Marriage Proposal Is Not Recommended

Miss Manners by by Judith Martin, Nicholas Ivor Martin and Jacobina Martin
by Judith Martin, Nicholas Ivor Martin and Jacobina Martin
Miss Manners | August 12th, 2012

DEAR MISS MANNERS: In the past year, two male friends whom I have known for many years proposed marriage to me. I turned them both down due to the fact that both asked me in a text message.

Miss Manners, when did asking for a woman's hand in marriage become so impersonal? I frankly felt offended that neither was willing to ask me in person on one knee.

One of the previously mentioned men I would love to marry. He is a great guy who has been there for me through thick and thin for seven years going on eight, and we work very well together. I'm 27 years old and still think that if a man is going to ask for a woman's hand in marriage, he should at least talk to her father about it and get permission to ask. Am I being too old-fashioned in this thought?

GENTLE READER: Or perhaps not old-fashioned enough. The showy, on-one-knee proposal is a modern standard, derived from cartoon ideas of Victorian proposals. Old-fashioned gentlemen were not absolutely required to propose from the floor.

Nor did they text. Miss Manners agrees that texting, which is a lightweight way of conveying instant thoughts, is unsuitable. That you have captivated two gentlemen who thought this would charm you is alarming.

Nevertheless, one of them is someone you want to marry. Seven years through thick and thin, and that's it?

Would you accept a compromise between the overly casual and the overly contrived? That would be the dignified statement that he loves you and wants to spend his life with you, followed by the simple (but, from the right person, thrilling) question of whether you will marry him. To prompt that, you could text (because this would not be a formal communication), "If you have an important question to ask me, I would be glad to listen."

As for first asking a father's permission, that comes to us from a time when the father had the option of refusing. His daughter would wear him down eventually, of course, but permission was seriously required. And the answer often came only after a thorough financial grilling of the suitor, because he would be expected to assume the sole financial support of his wife that her father had been supplying.

Miss Manners is guessing that this does not describe your situation. The form of asking permission, like that of a father giving away the bride, can be retained as a charming anachronism, but only after the lady both consents and warns her father. You wouldn't want him to ask to see the young man's portfolio, and you certainly wouldn't want him to say, "But I thought she was seeing Zachary."

DEAR MISS MANNERS: What is the correct sequence of courses in a meal?

GENTLE READER: (1) oysters, (2) soup, (3) fish, (4) roast meat, (5) vegetables, (6) game, (7) salad, (8) creamed or frozen sweet dessert, (9) cheese, (10) fruit, (11) chocolates or wafers served with coffee.

This is Miss Manners' abbreviated list from what used to be considered a proper dinner. You are welcome to pare it down even more, if you don't mind your guests' foraging in your refrigerator afterward, but please keep the correct order.

(Please send your questions to Miss Manners at her website, www.missmanners.com; to her email, dearmissmanners@gmail.com; or through postal mail to Miss Manners, Universal Uclick, 1130 Walnut St., Kansas City, MO 64106.)

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