DEAR MISS MANNERS: Hi! I wonder if you could advise me as to when parents of adult children who are dating should meet? His want to meet us, and our daughter is confused because he hasn't said he loves her yet (they have been dating for over a year).

GENTLE READER: There is meeting and Meeting, and Miss Manners is afraid that you have confused the two.

When a couple have become affianced, or what now passes for such, a portentous Meeting is in order so that each family can size up the other after it is too late to avoid acquiring them as relatives. An informal meeting before that time, as if it were simply a continuation of getting to know the parents of your child's playmates, seems like a good idea.

DEAR MISS MANNERS: At an apartment-warming party I attended, a couple arrived about one-half hour into the party. Within seconds, the family dog began making love to the female guest's leg. Her date grabbed her because she was struggling to stand.

The hostess said, "Down! Down!" The host said, "No, 'Big Boy!' No!" and tried to pull "Big Boy" off, without success. A nearby guest then leaned forward and gave the dog's tail a single tug. The dog let out a yelp, dropped to his feet and began inspecting his rear.

The yelp brought the party to a halt. In the silence that followed, the hostess said, "Did you jerk my dog's tail?" The tail-tugger turned red and looked ashamed, but said nothing. The moment passed and the party resumed.

"Big Boy" walked away. The tail-tugger did, too, in the opposite direction. The young woman guest later became pregnant, but not because of "Big Boy." I don't think anyone handled this well. What do you think?

GENTLE READER: That you had far too good a time at this party.

DEAR MISS MANNERS: Is it possible to be so proper that you can become improper? My grandmother, who is a "proper" lady, writes her thank-you notes and sets her table settings exactly the way they should be, but it has all become excessive lately.

She called to thank me for my birthday party, which she paid for; writes thank-you notes for our (and others') thank-you notes; and repeatedly calls during our dinnertime even though I have asked her to call earlier or later because of dinner.

I am very happy to have had a proper grandmother because I now have good manners, and can compose proper thank-yous and conduct myself well in public. I think manners are lacking in most people my age (25) and am often complimented on mine, which delights Grandma to no end. I ask because I am not sure if I simply never noticed her manners or if this is a quirk of becoming older.

GENTLE READER: It is said that old people sometimes become exaggerated versions of their younger selves. If this is the case, Miss Manners considers you among the luckiest of those whose patience is required to deal with them. Ask around among your friends whose elderly relatives were characterized by less charming traits, and you will soon come to appreciate the burden of too many thanks (as well as to realize that you can put the answering machine on during dinner and return the call later).

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DEAR MISS MANNERS: Could you kindly answer how one properly eats a baked apple? Is it cut with fork and knife or with spoon?

GENTLE READER: A properly baked apple is so ready to surrender that Miss Manners would consider attacking it with a knife to be cruel use of excessive force.

The standard implements for dessert, a fork and spoon, are exactly what you need, as the side of the fork easily cuts the weakened skin of the apple and the spoon deals with the squishy part. At least these implements are supposed to be standard. Miss Manners will overlook the substitution of a salad fork for a dessert fork, provided you do not try to pass off a teaspoon as a dessert spoon. Where that habit came from she cannot imagine, but a dessert spoon must be larger, and the only passable substitution would be an oval soup spoon.

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DEAR MISS MANNERS: I have never been married. I someday soon will propose to my lady friend. She was previously married and has a 4-year-old daughter.

Should a man still purchase an engagement ring for his lady? I am not opposed to the idea whatsoever, rather willing actually. Or should I propose with the wedding ring itself? What is customary in this un-customary situation?

GENTLE READER: Custom has varied in this matter, in accordance with the, ah, customs generally being observed before the proposal. So although the gentleman now usually (but by no means necessarily) proposes with a ring in hand, it is for different reasons than existed long ago.

A century or so ago, as Miss Manners recalls, the presumption was that a husband and an engagement ring from his family were being offered as a package deal. Thus developed the picture we have of the proffered hopeful on bended knee, brandishing a velvet box.

Whether the supply of suitors with extra rings lying around the vault ran out, or modern ladies had stricter taste requirements about what they were going to wear, this began to change. Until recent decades, it was more common for the couple to choose the engagement ring together (after prudent gentlemen warned their jewelers to show only rings in their price range).

The package deal approach reappeared when premarital cohabitation became commonplace. The element of surprise that once enabled ladies to exclaim, "Why, Mr. Farnsworth! I had no idea you cared!" is seriously lacking in today's courtships.

To replace this, suitors have been taxed with making the long-suspected and perhaps long-overdue marriage proposal a surprise. Elaborate schemes to ambush the lady when she least suspects now include producing a ring the gentleman has selected on his own. She is still allowed to have some say about the wedding ring, which, in any case, it would be premature to produce before sealing the engagement with or without its own ring.

DEAR MISS MANNERS: It has come to our attention that a brother who disowned the family years ago has a Web site, on which he has recounted his memories of our mother's long illness and many of our past family problems.

There are many untruths in this "novella." Our family names are all clearly there with many false claims to having cheated this brother from our mother's will, etc. Lots of defamation of character for all of us, including, but not limited to, accusations of beatings, drug use, sexual deviation and theft. We have pointed out these inaccuracies to him via e-mail. There is no legal recourse to stopping this "novella." If we were to have our own Web site, how could we, in the least offensive way, state the facts?

GENTLE READER: Sympathetically, if at all. Frankly, Miss Manners thinks dealing with this at all is a bad idea. People who did not read your brother's Web site will find out about the charges through yours, and will take the approach, as people always do, that there must be truth on both sides.

If you must say something, it should be to express the hope that your estranged brother will overcome his problems and return to the fold. Anything more provocative would be sure to send people scurrying to his Web site to find out more.

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