DEAR DR. NERDLOVE: I wanted to reach out to you because I’m seeking guidance on a potential relationship, but am uncertain of how to proceed.

About 2-3 years ago, I went with a friend to a nearby bar, which featured a “Taco Tuesday” special after we had both seen “Sorry to Bother You,” and wanted to discuss it further. Needless to say, the bartender working that night was sociable (especially once I showed an interest in her work and craft) and overall it was a good time.

A year or so later, I came back to the bar one night to meet some other friends. Once again, she was working there and seemed happy to see me. We caught up a bit, and much to my surprise, comped me for one of my drinks, which was sweet and generous of her. This back-and-forth carried on throughout the rest of last year. I’d show up, eat, drink, tip generously, and talk. It turned out we had a good amount in common: she’s a photographer, I crew on film/video jobs. We both love talking mixology and different liquors and liqueurs.

In short, I developed a bit of a crush on this bartender. And after introducing her to some of my friends, they also picked up on a potential mutual interest vibe. So near the end of last year, I expressed an interest in hanging out with her outside of her workplace. She, much to my surprise, gave me her cell phone number and seemed willing to meet. She did express a desire to keep it casual, however, although that was not a deal-breaker for me. As someone who has to be friendly and sociable to keep working, making friends is always easier and slightly more comfortable to me.

So I reached out to her at the beginning of this year to see if she wanted to get coffee. She did text back that she was in favor of it, but we never got a date or time pinned down, so I let it go, not wanting to pressure her. Fast-forward to now, where I stopped into her bar for a meal and some drinks. She was working there and seemed very happy to see me, so much so that she came around the bar to sit next to me as we both talked about our lives. At this point, even I felt like there was some kind of chemistry between us, and this was before the liquor started flowing.

Later on, I sent her an invite by way of a text message to a casual event among friends, but she didn’t respond, though I didn’t take it personally. Given her desire to keep things simple, I figured pushing her for an answer wouldn’t be helpful.

So in summary, I’ve been interested in getting to know this bartender a bit more outside of the place she works. We have common interests and goals, and seem to get along well enough when at her workplace. The question is where the boundaries for this relationship are.

If it can be romantic, that would be fantastic. If it’s more of a friendship, I would also enjoy it greatly, since I find myself cherishing those the most. If it’s more of a casual acquaintance-type of deal, I also would be willing to accept it, since the matter would be settled. The issue comes down to asking whether there’s room for this relationship to grow at all outside of the bar.

I’ve read enough articles and essays to know how often women have to be diplomatic when refusing the advances of men, and the difficulties of navigating that space safely. Therefore, I’ve tried to avoid overstepping my bounds with her or violating what trust I’ve earned.

Any advice or help you could provide here would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you,

-Searching for Boundaries

DEAR SEARCHING FOR BOUNDARIES: So, there’s a couple things going on here, SfB.  But before I get to your question in specifically, I want to talk a little about flirting with folks in the service industry, especially bartenders, waitstaff and the like.

While a lot of folks have issues with “is she flirting or just being friendly”, this can be particularly fraught when it comes to flirting with your bartender, your waitress or other people in service jobs. There’re a lot of things that will be working against you — both in terms of gauging her interest but also the likelihood of her being interested in you at all.

The first is that you’ve been flirting with someone in the service industry and, in particular, someone who makes a living off customers’ tips. This is something that guys in general need to keep in mind when they’re flirting with waitstaff, bartenders, shot girls, strippers and other folks who make money from tips and commissions; they have a vested interest in appearing available and interested. That means that she has a vested interest in being “professionally” flirty. By being a little friendlier and flirtier, especially with male customers, she increases the likelihood of getting more and larger tips from folks. Some will be from people who think that that they can essentially “buy” her affections, others from folks who’re likely to give more money because they’re turned on. It may feel like they’re into you… but a lot of times that’s a case of wishful thinking and letting your dick do the thinking for you. It’s important to keep a relatively level and skeptical head in these situations.

There’s also the fact that she’s at work, and in a position where she can’t be as straight-forward with turning somebody down. While there is a movement for more venues to implement “have your staff’s back at all times” policies, there’re still plenty of managers and bosses who’ll fire an employee who’s “causing trouble”, even if the trouble in this case is a customer who’s acting like a double-stuffed dickbag. So the odds are high that you’re going to get a very soft “no” – being turned down in an indirect manner. This may be a “I can’t this week”, “I’m too busy” or even a “we have a no dating customers rule”. This sort of refusal helps ease the sting of the rejection and soothes the potentially ruffled feathers of a customer who might have a profoundly negative reaction to being turned down.

The next thing to keep in mind is that as an attractive woman in a front-of-house job like bartending, she’s getting hit on a lot. There are a lot of men who are going to be throwing attention her way, and that can end up being both exhausting and tedious; doubly so because frankly, a lot of the folks hitting on her are douchebags who don’t give a six-legged rat’s ass that she’s, y’know. At work. So while she may be the most attractive woman you’ve ever met and you’ve never done anything like this before… you’re likely not even the fourth or fifth person to hit on her that day. Being yet another dude throwing dick her way makes you blend into the crowd of all the other folks who’ve made the same offer.

Now this doesn’t mean that approaching or flirting with with the waitstaff or the bartender (or whomever) is impossible; it just means that you shouldn’t, as a general rule, expect more than just some enjoyable flirting.

(And also, tip them well; they’re working hard for their money and service industry wages are a goddamn crime.)

It is possible that you and someone in the service industry might make a solid connection that could lead somewhere… but it’s going to take time and a lot of careful behavior.

Much like in your case SfB: you basically did everything right if you want to build a connection with a bartender. You became a regular, which mean that she got to know you over time. As many an advertising executive can tell you: repeated exposure breeds familiarity and familiarity breeds interest. You also made a point of being the sort of customer that waitstaff and bartenders like: you’re polite, you’re friendly, you show interest in them as a person and — importantly — you respect their time. You tip well, you’re well mannered… these are these are the sorts of things that makes somebody a favorite regular.

Once you’ve built up that respect, affection and — importantly — trust over time, then and only then did you make an offer to get together outside of work. And even then… you did it all correctly. You didn’t treat not being able to make a date work as anything other than an unfortunate case of bad timing and incompatible schedules. You didn’t push her, get angry or otherwise act like an asshat. All to the good. This is a big part of why she’s still happy to see you when you come in.

The only mistake that you made — as far as such things go — is that you invited her to a group event. While that’s not necessarily a bad thing — in fact, it can work out rather well — it can also be more than a little intimidating for some folks. Going to an event where you only know one person can be a little much, especially when you don’t necessarily know that person well. It can be intimidating if they’re a little on the shy side (which yes, even folks with social jobs like bartending can be, especially when they’re not in work mode) or exhausting if they’re an introvert. And some of it might have been an issue of “private event” vs “public event”. If it were you and some friends going to something that was open to the general public, that might be more acceptable than if it were a casual get together at somebody’s house; it’s entirely possible she might have felt like an outsider or intruder.

Or it just may not be to her taste. Or… well, she just might not have been interested.

But again: you’ve handled this well, and that says a lot of good things about you.

Here’s what I’d suggest: give it one more shot with your bartender friend. This time, the next time you hang out that the bar, bring up something that you’re planning to do anyway: a concert, an art show, a street-faire… something that you enjoy and would go to regardless of whether you have a date or not. Then, towards the end of the evening when you’re planning on heading out… tell her that you think she’d probably really enjoy $COOL_THING and if she’s interested, you’d love to take her. This has a number of advantages over inviting someone to a casual get-together with strangers: there’s a specific time and place, it’s lower emotional stakes and it feels less serious. It’s a public event, which can feel both safer and less intense, and it doesn’t feel like as much of an investment.

If she’s down… well, Yahtzee; you both win. If not? Then assume that this was a soft “no” and that while she likes you as a person and a regular at her bar, she’s not interested in taking things outside of work. You can take satisfaction with having not thrown away your shot and in having gotten an answer. By respecting the soft no, you’re respecting her and not making things awkward and having to find a new bar.

And if it is a case of her being interested, but circumstances have worked against you? Well, she knows you’re into her and that you’re a cool and respectful dude. She’ll let you know if she’s down for this being more than just a bartender/favorite customer relationship.’

Good luck.

Please send your questions to Dr. NerdLove at his website (www.doctornerdlove.com/contact); or to his email, doc@doctornerdlove.com

DEAR DR. NERDLOVE: When my wife and I divorced a year ago, I very quickly began a long distance relationship with an old flame. We saw each other a few times, sexted, and stayed in touch, although there were plenty of fights that probably wouldn’t have happened if we were in the same city. You know, a long distance relationship.

This past summer, she revealed that her alcoholic husband had been getting drunk and physically abusing her, pretty regularly, but she always played it down and changed the subject (although she’s the one who brought it up). I’ve tried to respect her wishes and not talk about it, and then she’d talk about it and do everything she could to convince me that he’s not a bad guy.

This came to a head the other day, when she announced that her husband had asked her to move out. While discussing that, she texted that he was punching her in the ribs and wouldn’t stop, and she sent me a video where the camera was pointed at the floor, his voice was drunkenly belittling her, and she was screaming for him to stop. So I called the police in her city and explained the situation. The police called me back, said she was uncooperative (she wouldn’t even confirm her name with them), intoxicated, and completely unmarked. She chewed me out over text for doing that and making things worse, but the next day, she told me that her husband was so drunk that he doesn’t even remember hitting her.

I have rebuilt my life after a devastating divorce. I have a handful of friends, a new job, a great apartment, and exciting prospects creatively. I am battling bipolar 2, which means epic depressive episodes if I’m not careful. I don’t want to abandon Flame, but I can’t rescue her. I don’t even know what she’s hoping to accomplish by telling me and sending me these videos. I just know that she is in this situation, and even though he’s beating her and throwing her out of her home, she’s still on his side. I don’t want that in my life. She’s bad for my health. But again, I don’t want to abandon her.

And in case it needs a little more flair, this whole abuse thing might be fake. She has, in the past, demonstrated that she’s willing to exaggerate something and lie to make a point. The video she sent made me suspicious for various reasons. I haven’t seen any evidence that supports her abuse, I’m just taking it on face value. I won’t assume she is faking it, and I will never accuse her of that, but it is still a possibility that sits in my head as I ponder all of this.

I don’t know what to do. She needs help. I can’t give it to her. I don’t want her in my life anymore, but I can’t leave her alone like this. Your input would be greatly appreciated.

Sincerely,

I’m So Very, Very Tired

DEAR I’M SO VERY VERY TIRED: I don’t think you need me to tell you that this is a bad scene, ISVVT, no matter whether she’s exaggerating things or not.

First, we should talk a little about domestic abuse and the seemingly eternal question of “why don’t victims leave?”

(Which, incidentally, is the wrong question; the right question is: “why do abusers abuse their victims, and how do we prevent that from happening?”)

Domestic abuse and domestic violence can be thorny issues for folks on the outside because it seems so very cut and dried: you’re being abused, even physically assaulted, so why don’t you GET THE F

k OUT? But the actual dynamics of it all for the people dealing with being abused is difficult. First there’s the psychological aspects that may cause someone to stay. The first and trickiest is the question of “is this actually worth labeling ‘abuse’?” Slapping the “abuse” label on behavior in a relationship can seem like a point of no return, and people can be understandably loathe to do so. There’s always the feeling that this behavior may not reach the standard necessary for being called “abuse” and worrying that they may be defining it down. Are arguments and raised voices abuse or not? What about someone who gets heated and says things they don’t mean because they tend to lash out when they’re angry?

Similarly, some people may not recognize abusive behavior, even when it happens to them. I’ve lost track of how many letters I’ve gotten from people who’ve been asking for a third party judgement about whether or not they were being abused by their partner. While it seems like it would be a clear cut, binary yes or no answer from the outside, when you’re the one living with it, suddenly there’re shades of gray that blur the whole thing into incomprehensibility. Even things that would seem obvious to someone on the outside looking in can feel like “this is just how our relationship is” to the person experiencing it.

And there are plenty of folks who don’t think that it deserves to be called “abuse” if it doesn’t involve physical violence… even though most forms of domestic abuse are emotional and psychological, not physical.

Then there’s the fact that a lot of people don’t want to think of themselves as being someone who’d let themselves be abused. That whole question of “Why don’t they just leave?” becomes the very reason why people don’t want to believe that they’re being abused. To admit to being victim of relationship abuse would mean admitting to being one of those people who didn’t know enough to GTFO at speed, and that’s a very hard thing to accept about yourself. It’s made worse when you worry that other people wouldn’t accept the idea that you’re being abused. Part of the reason why male victims of abuse and sexual assault are loathe to come forward stems from the idea that other people would never believe that a man could be abused or raped… especially by a female partner.

Of course, there’s always the fact that many abusers are skillful manipulators, who’ll often put a whammy on their victims and convince them that this is all their fault. If they wouldn’t make them mad, if they would just do what they were told, if they weren’t deficient in some way, none of this would happen. And again: it’s very easy to say “well duh, that’s obviously abuse tactics,” from the perspective of someone who isn’t there… it’s not as though the abuser springs this out of the blue. Abusive relationships almost always start with an intense honeymoon period where everything is perfect. The abuse tends to start slowly, ramping up until it feels like a natural part of the relationship, not some moment where the abuser snaps and starts screaming and hurling things.

Nor is it constant. Abusers frequently will have times where they vocally, emphatically insist that they’re sorry, this will never happen again… and then go back to doing the exact same behaviors. Or they’ll use a form of intermittent reinforcement, where they love-bomb their victim for having done something right or convince them that this was just a passing issue, a stormy moment that’s finally passed.

And then there’s the fact that for many people, leaving is literally impossible. The abuser may be threatening their friends, their family, even their pets. The abuser may have control over their finances and left them with no means to escape. Or — as absurd as it may seem — it may be safer to stay with the abuser than it would be to try to leave. When you have no resources and no place to go, living on the street can be worse and potentially more dangerous than living with an abuser.

With all that in mind, let’s get back to your situation with Old Flame. Because, honestly? I’ve got questions. A lot of them.

My  stance when it comes to claims of abuse is simple: believe victims, because society as a whole tends to blame victims by default. But that doesn’t mean blindly believing people, especially when some of what they’re doing seems… odd. On the one hand, a lot of what you describe sounds very much like the behavior of someone in an abusive relationship. Bringing the issue up before downplaying it, complaining to people who tried to help that they made it worse, refusing to talk to the cops… these are all distressingly common behaviors of someone who’s dealing with an abusive relationship. The cops dismissing things is also — unfortunately — incredibly common; a lot of police officers have no or minimal training in how to recognize or deal with a domestic abuse situation. Hell, you can look at all the times when Nicole Brown Simpson called the cops on OJ, even being found mostly naked and beaten within an inch of her life… and the cops did nothing.

All of that tracks.

Other things though, strike me as being weird. The way you describe her text, for example, makes it sound as though he were punching her in the ribs AS she was sending the text which… look if that’s what was going on, I can picture how it might be theoretically possible, but it’s kind of implausible. Similarly her surreptitiously broadcasting video of his screaming at her while she begs him to stop is something I could easily see a victim doing as a way of trying to get help, trying to send a message without their abuser recognizing it and making things worse. But going by the apparent timeline in your letter this was on the same day that he was pounding her ribs? And apparently afterwards? I dunno.

All that being said: to me, this sounds like a f

ked up and abusive situation. I think you did the right thing by calling the cops at at a time when you had every reason to believe that she was in physical danger. If she’s exaggerating things or acting out in a way to keep you involved, well one would hope that the cops showing up at her door would be a valuable lesson in why she shouldn’t play these sorts of games.

But you’re also correct: you can’t rescue her. If she’s exaggerating things or even making them up, there’s nothing to rescue her from. If she’s telling you the God’s honest truth… well, you still can’t rescue her. As frustrating as it can be for the friends and loved ones of abuse victims, the only person who can save them is themselves. You can’t forcibly pull someone out of that situation until they’re ready to leave. And even then, it can take multiple attempts before a victim is able to get out of an abusive relationship and make it stick. What you can do is provide support and resources and the knowledge that if and when she’s ready to make the escape, you’ll be there to help. You can help her develop an escape plan, you can help her by connecting her with people who can listen and provide assistance… but you can’t save her.

However, you also have a responsibility to yourself and your own health and destroying yourself — especially when you can’t do much for her — isn’t the answer either. You’re right: your own emotional resources are limited and you have to put your own oxygen mask on first before helping someone else with theirs.

This is a time when you may need to pass the responsibility on to people who are in a position to help. If you know your ex’s friends or family, then give them the heads up that this is happening. Tell them what’s going on, send them the video that she sent you and apprise them about what you know. The more people in her life who know — especially people who know her well and are close to her — the better. Even if this is a call for attention, not abuse.

And in the meantime, you may want to call the National Domestic Abuse Hotline: at 1-800-799-7233 and talk to the people there. They can help you decide the best course of action to support your friend when she needs it.

Good luck. And write back to let us know how you’re doing.

Please send your questions to Dr. NerdLove at his website (www.doctornerdlove.com/contact); or to his email, doc@doctornerdlove.com

DEAR DR. NERDLOVE: Hi Dr. NerdLove,

I know I’m young (in my early 20’s) but I seem to be undateable  and I want to know what I’m doing wrong. My last relationship was 5 yrs ago & he was my best friend beforehand. But now? I will get the odd guy telling me I’m hot, but then also telling me I’m not “his type”, which is fine ‘cuz they’re normally perverts anyways. No one seems interested in me and I want to know why.

I have guy friends, in fact I find it easier to hang out with the dudes than to deal with female drama. It’s taken some therapy but I’m at the point where I love myself both mentally & physically. I’m a strong independent woman who has an extremely big heart and put others ahead of myself to my own detriment (I’m working on that).

I have no problem asking guys out but often get turned down even though we may have been flirting for months. This makes me emotional & feel unlovable.

I am very witty/sarcastic and I am not afraid to show my weirdness in most settings, which makes me think that’s what guys don’t like…

The last guy I asked out wasn’t interested but totally used me for physical attention. He liked a mutual friend of ours. I asked what was so great about her & he said “she was sweet & caring”. But the thing is is she isn’t, she’s very selfish but can put on a show. The worst part is when they started dating, she didn’t really like him but liked the attention. Meanwhile, when he came over I’d make him a meal I know he’ll enjoy, including his favorite pie… which I’d go to 4-5 different stores looking for the special ingredients. We’d banter, talk openly/honestly & cuddle. Yet I wasn’t good enough.

I would say immaturity on his part but ALL guys seem to be that way with me.

What am I doing wrong?

Lost and Lonely

DEAR LOST AND LONELY: The problem with letters like this is that there’s really no way to diagnose things without following you around for days or weeks to observe like I’m David Attenborough. And even then, that may not give a conclusive answer. I’ve had times where I’ve done precisely that: gone out with friends to observe them and see what they might be doing wrong… and the answer was “nothing”. It’s an incredibly frustrating situation because sometimes the issue has nothing to do with you and everything to do with circumstance. It could be that you’re dealing with immature guys, it could be that you’re trying to date people who simply aren’t your “tribe”, as it were, or that you’re simply in the wrong place at the wrong time and you might do better in a completely different environment.

With that having been said, one thing you mention that leaps out at me is this:

“I have guy friends, in fact I find it easier to hang out with the dudes than to deal with female drama.”

I see this surprisingly often in a lot of women your age — a sort of “I’m not like those other girls” rejection of feminine behavior or presentation as somehow lesser. It’s something that crops up a lot in pop culture, from songs to movies to TV shows… and I think that could be part of the issue. Not that there’s something wrong with having a more masculine presentation or interests, but in the “but ewww that girly shit” attitude. It creates this artificial divide that ends up making other women “the enemy” when they don’t need to be, and it can make it harder for you to find both friends and valuable sources of support and information.

I suspect part of the issue you’re having right now is that the guys you’ve been hanging with don’t see you as a potential partner; they see you as a bro. What they’re looking for in a partner is someone who’s a little more traditionally femme — or at least, who’s more performatively feminine. Which, hey, cool that’s what they’re into… but that’s not what you are offering. And I think your seeing “female drama” as something to avoid or be above is keeping you from recognizing that. You see what you have to offer as being so much better and you’re getting frustrated that guys don’t see that… which isn’t what’s happening here.

The problem you’re having is that these guys enjoy your company, they enjoy flirting and they like that you’re willing to do things for them… but that doesn’t mean they want to date you. Plenty of folks like to flirt for fun, they appreciate someone being attracted to them and they certainly like having friends who’ll make their favorite dessert. But that doesn’t translate into “they’ll also be attracted to you”.

It’s not that what those women offer is worth less than what you have to offer or that you’re not good enough, it’s just that she represents what those guys want. As Dita Von Teese is fond of saying: you can be the sweetest, juiciest peach in the world, but some folks just don’t like peaches.

Now that doesn’t mean that the answer is to start acting entirely differently and being more feminine in your presentation and behavior. I think the answer is learning to recognize when that’s what guys are looking for in a potential partner, so that you don’t waste your time pining for dudes who simply don’t want you. There’re guys who prefer women who’re more gender non-conforming in behavior and who act more like “one of the guys”; the problem is that you don’t seem to be trying to date them. Instead, you’re spending a lot of time and effort on guys who may like that you’re into them and what you’ll do for them… but that’s as far as it goes. And honestly, there’s no profit to trying to convince them to give you a chance. The amount of energy you’re putting in will never be commensurate with the results.

I think it’d be a good idea to work on not seeing being more traditionally femme as bad or lesser, if only because it means you’ll have a larger pool of friends and support to draw from. But I also think that if you’re happy with who you are, then you need to look for guys who are looking for that, instead of lamenting the dudes who just don’t want peaches.

Good luck.

Please send your questions to Dr. NerdLove at his website (www.doctornerdlove.com/contact); or to his email, doc@doctornerdlove.com