life

Etiquette at a Crowded Bar

Miss Manners by by Judith Martin, Nicholas Ivor Martin and Jacobina Martin
by Judith Martin, Nicholas Ivor Martin and Jacobina Martin
Miss Manners | July 7th, 2022 | Letter 1 of 2

DEAR MISS MANNERS: I've often wondered what the etiquette is when selecting a seat in a crowded bar. My boyfriend and I often enjoy sitting at the bar of local restaurants for a quick dinner -- it's a bit more lively and entertaining than a table.

Should one leave a stool between parties? That seems appropriate, but also leads to many unused seats for patrons who might enjoy the bar, too.

We've often encountered a bar with many solo open stools; is it appropriate to ask someone to move over in order to get two stools together? I am not a very vocal or forthright person, so having your opinion in my back pocket will give me the social fortitude to handle the situation next time.

GENTLE READER: The rule is one bar stool per person. In an empty bar, it is perfectly reasonable to spread out -- so long as you are prepared to scoot over as the bar fills up. It is therefore less trouble for everyone if, in an already crowded bar, one does not leave gaps. (And yes, it is perfectly proper to request that patrons close gaps.)

During the pandemic, Miss Manners noticed that in offices with waiting rooms, there was a preference for taping over every other chair rather than simply removing some. Not being a frequenter of bars, she does not know if bar owners also followed this vaguely alarming practice.

life

Miss Manners for July 07, 2022

Miss Manners by by Judith Martin, Nicholas Ivor Martin and Jacobina Martin
by Judith Martin, Nicholas Ivor Martin and Jacobina Martin
Miss Manners | July 7th, 2022 | Letter 2 of 2

DEAR MISS MANNERS: My extended family took a lovely 10-day vacation. Included in the travel party were my husband, myself, our young adult children, my husband's parents, my father and his lady friend.

Each household paid the tour company in advance for lodging, transportation and activities. Meals and tips were not included, but in the past, this group has traveled together and shared those expenses. Each member would put a little toward tips for drivers and guides, and take turns paying for meals, coffee, ice cream, etc.

Unfortunately, my father had to leave the trip early due to illness. His lady friend chose to remain with the group in order to enjoy the rest of our itinerary. Here is the difficulty: She never offered to contribute to any expenses, and as a result, the rest of the group covered all of her incidentals. Further, she expected someone else to carry her luggage.

She is fine company, but she never thanked anyone for covering the meals, tips and treats, or for acting as her porter. We said nothing, privately agreeing that we would care for her as a sign of respect for my father.

Now my father wants us all to travel together again. What should I say?

GENTLE READER: If Lady Friend understood subtlety, she might have noticed that continuing the trip when your father was ill, though not technically impolite, was not the way to convince the family how much she cared about him.

This will only be a problem if she takes up permanent residence in the family. Miss Manners would solve the immediate problem by saying, "Dad, we would love to. But you need to tell Lady Friend how we handle incidental expenses."

(Please send your questions to Miss Manners at her website, www.missmanners.com; to her email, dearmissmanners@gmail.com; or through postal mail to Miss Manners, Andrews McMeel Syndication, 1130 Walnut St., Kansas City, MO 64106.)

life

We're Inviting You, But Please Don't Come!

Miss Manners by by Judith Martin, Nicholas Ivor Martin and Jacobina Martin
by Judith Martin, Nicholas Ivor Martin and Jacobina Martin
Miss Manners | July 6th, 2022 | Letter 1 of 2

DEAR MISS MANNERS: A relative and I are organizing a get-together of family members we don't see much now that our grandparents and parents have died. We plan to invite 15 relatives and their spouses, kids and grandkids, with multiple activities planned over two or three days. Most will have to travel for the occasion.

There are two people we don't want to join us, but whom we must invite because leaving them off the invitation list would require explaining the reasons. (Those reasons include the theft of tens of thousands of dollars, the theft of family heirlooms and making sexualized remarks to a preteen.)

How can we include them in the invitation list but somehow keep them from coming? We could send invitations electronically, with names of all the relatives in blind copies, but eventually the omission would be noticed.

I have thought of hinting at legal action to one of these relatives, but have no such threat to make to the other.

GENTLE READER: Issuing invitations and pressing charges in the same mail reminds Miss Manners of the ancient practice of inviting your rival to dinner so you could assassinate him.

It made for a good story (for those who survived), but it was never good manners.

If these relatives committed such egregious acts, then they should not be invited. If you do not want to explain why they were excluded, say, "We have had some serious differences that I do not wish to discuss." And then pass the cookies.

life

Miss Manners for July 06, 2022

Miss Manners by by Judith Martin, Nicholas Ivor Martin and Jacobina Martin
by Judith Martin, Nicholas Ivor Martin and Jacobina Martin
Miss Manners | July 6th, 2022 | Letter 2 of 2

DEAR MISS MANNERS: I live in a nonsmoking apartment building. The policy states that residents in violation are liable for a $250 fee for each occurrence. Part of why I moved here is because I'm a nonsmoker.

The problem is the person in the apartment below me, who smokes marijuana. Generally I'm a live-and-let-live person, but their smoke wafts into my place through the vents.

I knocked on their door, explained the situation and requested that they take it outside. They said they would. They haven't.

I hate to act like a "Karen" by reporting them to management and causing them to potentially pay $250, but I also don't want to live with this smoke. What is the most decent and reasonable way to handle this?

GENTLE READER: Being a good neighbor means not breaking the rules, and also dealing reasonably with those who do. Whether one does this because it is bad policy to antagonize people who know where you live, or from the more recent fear of public shaming if there turn out to be extenuating circumstances, the caution is the same.

Miss Manners suggests allowing one more incident to go unreported, and then discussing with the offender whether there is a way that you two can solve the problem together -- without the need to involve anyone else. If, ultimately, you do have to appeal to management, include, along with your insistence that the behavior stop, an expression of sympathy for the offender.

(Please send your questions to Miss Manners at her website, www.missmanners.com; to her email, dearmissmanners@gmail.com; or through postal mail to Miss Manners, Andrews McMeel Syndication, 1130 Walnut St., Kansas City, MO 64106.)

life

Awkward Introductions at Youth Group Event

Miss Manners by by Judith Martin, Nicholas Ivor Martin and Jacobina Martin
by Judith Martin, Nicholas Ivor Martin and Jacobina Martin
Miss Manners | July 5th, 2022 | Letter 1 of 2

DEAR MISS MANNERS: I volunteered to help set up an event for a local youth group. As the volunteers were leaving, the leader of the event asked the adults to introduce themselves. We were all meeting the youth for the first time, except for one adult, who is active in the group and known to the kids and teens.

She introduced herself as Debbie, although they already knew her. I had intended to introduce myself as Mrs. Smith, but everyone else followed Debbie's lead and introduced themselves by first name only. When it got to me, I wasn't comfortable saying Mary, as I didn't want the kids to call me by my first name, so I said Mary Smith.

It stood out because I was the only one who used a last name, but at the age of 70, I'm used to kids calling me Mrs. Smith. How should I have handled this?

GENTLE READER: It was Miss Manners' own dear mother who set a precedent for you, many years ago.

She taught at a school where the teachers were, and still are, called by their first names. Although the presumption now is that this was done out of some leftist sense of equality, that was not the reason. Nobody thought that elementary school pupils were equal to the older and more educated faculty, although the mission was to help them become so eventually.

Rather, the informal nomenclature was a result of the school's having been founded by a tiny group of families whose children were on close terms. The equality it did espouse was that, from its founding in the 1940s, it was thoroughly integrated, with no racial or religious quotas, at a time when all other schools in the city, public and private, were segregated.

Miss Manners approves your requesting to be addressed as "Mrs. Smith." Her mother would, too, as that is exactly what she did. It was respected.

life

Miss Manners for July 05, 2022

Miss Manners by by Judith Martin, Nicholas Ivor Martin and Jacobina Martin
by Judith Martin, Nicholas Ivor Martin and Jacobina Martin
Miss Manners | July 5th, 2022 | Letter 2 of 2

DEAR MISS MANNERS: Three years ago, my husband and I purchased our dream home. It is an hour away from our old home, which is located at the beach. I use the beach house as an office a few times a week.

We have offered up the beach house for close family and friends to use. I recently became close to one of my cousins, who is as delighted to use the house as we are to offer it.

The problem is that her brother and sister now feel they are also entitled to use it. I am not particularly close to these cousins, and they are known in the family as "takers." One of the out-of-state "takers" has a habit of dropping off her kids with different relatives for a week, and then leaving them for the whole summer. Everyone in the family knows to stay clear of them.

The "takers" have been contacting me to use the beach house. I explained that it's a place of business and that there are affordable hotels nearby. They wouldn't take no for an answer. How do I keep them at bay but still let my other dear cousin use it?

GENTLE READER: 1. Say no as often as necessary. 2. Lock the door.

Perhaps you can enlist the favored cousin to tell them to back off. If not, you will have to say clearly -- and perhaps often -- that the house is simply not available, and will not be in the foreseeable future.

(Please send your questions to Miss Manners at her website, www.missmanners.com; to her email, dearmissmanners@gmail.com; or through postal mail to Miss Manners, Andrews McMeel Syndication, 1130 Walnut St., Kansas City, MO 64106.)

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