life

Engaged Daughter Wants Re Do on Proposal and Ring

Miss Manners by by Judith Martin, Nicholas Ivor Martin and Jacobina Martin
by Judith Martin, Nicholas Ivor Martin and Jacobina Martin
Miss Manners | June 6th, 2013

DEAR MISS MANNERS: My daughter recently became engaged to her boyfriend of seven years. He is a charming and quiet gentleman and devoted to my daughter.

My daughter is having second thoughts already. Some friends told her that his proposal was not elaborate enough, and that he should have let her choose her ring and not given her the stunning family ring that she now wears. (I admit to being very envious.)

She asked me what I thought about her giving back the ring and asking him to plan a more elaborate proposal and offering her a new ring. I was speechless.

I simply asked her what was more important -- the style of the proposal and a new ring, or the sincere proposal offered by a man so devoted to her that he gave her a ring of great sentimental value to him.

Her friends have convinced her this is the way to go, and I worry that she is so overwhelmed by them that she will do this.

My very outgoing son, who believes in sharing much of his life on social media, told her about his very understated proposal to his now-wife. Others have shared details about proposals made and received to show that a staged production is not necessary.

Is there any other advice I should share with her before she does something I think she will regret?

GENTLE READER: Yes: Advise her to give that poor young gentleman back his family ring. Miss Manners is not recommending this as a way to allow your daughter to squeeze another ring out of him, along with some treacly drama of a proposal. Rather it is to spare him from a marriage made miserable by the influence of childish ideas from his wife's scatterbrained friends.

The other advice is for you: You have a lot of parenting left to do. No matter what your daughter's age is, she is too immature to be married. You may not be able to ground her, but you should strongly oppose any idea of marriage until you are able to instill some values in her.

DEAR MISS MANNERS: My wife and I watch TV together only on weekends. Last night we were watching a movie and the phone rang. My wife answered it. It was a friend of hers calling to say hi and chat. They stayed on the phone for half an hour.

When the call was done, my wife asked me if I was angry, and I said yes, I thought it was rude of her to interrupt our evening together to talk on the phone. She disagreed, saying I was inflexible, and that it is not always possible to ask a friend if she could call back the next day to talk. What do you think?

GENTLE READER: Frankly, that watching television together hardly seems like such a romantic activity as to be inviolate. If your wife were taking calls during dinner, or your weekend Scrabble game, Miss Manners would feel differently.

(Please send your questions to Miss Manners at her website, www.missmanners.com; to her email, dearmissmanners@gmail.com; or through postal mail to Miss Manners, Universal Uclick, 1130 Walnut St., Kansas City, MO 64106.)

life

Show Concern, Not Curiosity, for Pregnant Single Niece

Miss Manners by by Judith Martin, Nicholas Ivor Martin and Jacobina Martin
by Judith Martin, Nicholas Ivor Martin and Jacobina Martin
Miss Manners | June 4th, 2013

DEAR MISS MANNERS: My single, 20-year-old niece unfortunately has found herself pregnant. The father is not in the picture. She is having the baby, but whether she gives it up for adoption has not yet been decided.

I love my niece dearly, as I do her mother, my sister. That this has happened in no way diminishes my love for either of them.

I am writing to you because I am not sure the appropriate way to respond. How deeply do I inquire about their plans? The state of her pregnancy? What they are thinking about after the birth?

I don't want to be intrusive, but I also don't want to seem dismissive. What I'm asking is the best way to express the love I have for my niece and whatever support I can give to her and this child. This is really uncharted territory for me.

GENTLE READER: Then proceed cautiously; this territory is full of land mines.

It is never polite to probe any pregnancy; the lady in question gets to give or withhold information as she pleases. Miss Manners begs you not to ask about the plans for the baby, which you will learn in good time.

What you want to show is concern, not curiosity. So you could offer to take her to her medical appointments, for example, or just to take her out for lunch or another treat. If you find that she plans to keep the baby, then you should make the usual fuss that relatives do when a baby is expected, but until then, let her do the talking, while you simply listen sympathetically and assure her of your love and support.

DEAR MISS MANNERS: On innumerable occasions, some of my guests have scolded me for not using disposable tableware, saying that my dishes create too much work. Once, a couple sent their children to the car to collect picnic supplies and began dismantling my table setting.

I prefer spending time with my guests, then doing the cleaning once they have left. My well-meaning friends, however, ignore my pleas that they go into the living room to visit with the others, and insist upon doing the dishes, while complaining the whole time. How am I to handle such situations?

GENTLE READER: Apparently your guests believe that they are unworthy of being treated nicely. Considering how rude it is to criticize and sabotage a host's arrangements, Miss Manners is inclined to agree.

If you really want to entertain such people, you should tell them, "Thank you for your concern, but please sit down. This is my house, and I prefer to run it in my own way. I wouldn't dream of interfering in your households."

DEAR MISS MANNERS: Is it rude to ask someone how big their diamond earrings are? Is it considered rude not to answer that question?

GENTLE READER: That is rather an odd question, as it presumably comes from someone who is looking at them. Miss Manners would consider it acceptable to reply, "They're exactly the same size that you see." If the follow-up question is, "No, I mean how many carats?" you may respond that they are welcome to count them.

(Please send your questions to Miss Manners at her website, www.missmanners.com; to her email, dearmissmanners@gmail.com; or through postal mail to Miss Manners, Universal Uclick, 1130 Walnut St., Kansas City, MO 64106.)

life

Honest Conversation About Religion Requires a Step Back

Miss Manners by by Judith Martin, Nicholas Ivor Martin and Jacobina Martin
by Judith Martin, Nicholas Ivor Martin and Jacobina Martin
Miss Manners | June 2nd, 2013

DEAR MISS MANNERS: I have a genuine fascination with cultures and religions that are not my own. I know it is incredibly rude to pester people about this, so I usually find answers to my questions online or in books.

However, a somewhat close friend of mine shared a mutual curiosity about religion, and we had an interesting conversation about our (very different) faiths. Curious about the concept of hell, I asked her, "If I was a good person all my life, a kind, giving, completely unselfish person, yet someone who believes differently, would I go to hell?"

She told me in no uncertain terms that I would. Was this rude of her? Logically, I know I asked for it. But it felt as though she was telling me I was going to hell for having a different religion.

Should I be offended? Must I avoid the topic of religion at all times in the future? I know that it is a largely personal and inflammatory topic, but I am eager to have open and honest conversations about it. Is this impossible?

GENTLE READER: You should not expect salvation from Miss Manners.

You committed a social sin by pulling a conversational bait-and-switch on your friend. Having proposed a theological discussion, you appeared to be using yourself merely as stand-in for anyone of your views. Then you turned around and took her answer personally.

What was she supposed to say? "Well, yes, most people of your faith will go to hell, but you're so good that I'm sure God will make an exception for you"?

So yes, open and honest conversations are impossible if you expect to weigh information to make sure that it is flattering.

DEAR MISS MANNERS: Our family attended a wedding reception where each table had a centerpiece and an envelope asking the wedding guests to contribute toward the young couple's life together by purchasing the centerpiece. A price tag was attached.

I'm not sure I can take it anymore. We have paid to dance with the bride and groom, waited hours for the wedding party to arrive after a 4:30 p.m. ceremony, only to be served nothing but cheese cubes and chicken wings when they finally showed up, but this one just takes the cake.

I truly wish all of these young people well, and I assume now that our children are older, we will start being invited to more weddings. Is there any way to stop this madness, or should I just send them a card with an appropriate monetary gift and make myself a nice supper instead of attending?

GENTLE READER: For decades now, Miss Manners has been trying to make the point that using weddings as fundraisers is monstrously vulgar. Your experience shows how uphill a fight that is.

You should certainly send your best wishes to anyone who invites you to a wedding. But if you suspect fundraising activity -- wish lists are a pretty good indication -- you should respond as you would to any charitable event: Go or not as you wish, with no contribution required if you decline.

(Please send your questions to Miss Manners at her website, www.missmanners.com; to her email, dearmissmanners@gmail.com; or through postal mail to Miss Manners, Universal Uclick, 1130 Walnut St., Kansas City, MO 64106.)

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