life

Dating Etiquette Across the Centuries

Miss Manners by by Judith Martin, Nicholas Ivor Martin and Jacobina Martin
by Judith Martin, Nicholas Ivor Martin and Jacobina Martin
Miss Manners | September 19th, 2010

DEAR MISS MANNERS: Since this is the 21st century and not the 18th century, I thought that perhaps women's thinking had changed. Evidently, when it comes to spending money on others, it hasn't.

I would like to know the correct way to entertain the opposite sex when the woman insists on being a "friend" and not a "date."

A woman who became a widow two years ago, and evidently is still in mourning does not want to use the term "dating," so she would like to go for meals with me but feels I should pay the entire check. I told her that since she insists on our being friends and not dating, that the situation changes and that she should split the check with me.

After all, don't friends always split checks? And, as a friend, I wouldn't even get a good night kiss since I wouldn't be considered her date. Your opinion?

GENTLE READER: You had Miss Manners on your side until the good night kiss.

Before that, she was willing to overlook your strange historical presumptions in the interest of the eternal virtue of fairness. But perhaps we need to revisit them.

There was no dating in the 18th century, or, for that matter, in the 19th. Respectable ladies were courted by gentleman who paid calls on them at home, which meant that the ladies' parents bore the expense of whatever refreshments were needed to keep them at the task.

If the courtship was successful, the gentleman reciprocated by supporting the lady for the rest of her born days.

All right: not so fair.

Dating is a 20th-century concept, and although gentlemen paid the bills when courtship first went out on the town, ladies still had the urge -- or the sense of fairness, or the desire to be encouraging -- to be hospitable. Reciprocation took the form of such offerings as home-cooked meals, an aunt's unused theater tickets and hand-knitted argyle socks.

But there were those (Miss Manners can hardly refer to them as gentlemen) who had other ideas of how ladies could reciprocate. Possibly this was because they already had enough socks.

However, it smacked of the ugly idea that what we used to call ladies' favors could be bought for the price of a meal. Miss Manners is not accusing you, with your modest mention of a good night kiss, of sharing this vulgar sentiment. But that is where your argument leads. If you will bear with her, she will supply you with a better one.

That is that we have now evolved to the point where respectable reciprocity should be a factor in social relationships between the genders, whether they are characterized as friendship or romance.

Strict accounting is unseemly, and splitting each bill leads to pettiness along the lines of "You had dessert but I didn't" "But you took bites from mine," which is conducive to neither friendship nor romance. Also, people have different resources, so the style and cost needn't be equivalent.

But those who go out together, on whatever basis, should be considerate enough of each other to practice some form of reciprocation. Miss Manners leaves it to you to explain this to your friend, only asking that you omit the part about kisses.

DEAR MISS MANNERS: When did it become rude to visit without calling first?

GENTLE READER: 1876.

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life

Reader Hates Caller Id

Miss Manners by by Judith Martin, Nicholas Ivor Martin and Jacobina Martin
by Judith Martin, Nicholas Ivor Martin and Jacobina Martin
Miss Manners | September 16th, 2010

DEAR MISS MANNERS: Is my age showing when I feel that it is rude to be greeted, after I have placed a call, with "Hello, Dorothy"?

I know this means they have Caller ID, but I feel on the defensive, even before I have had a chance for them to hear my name.

GENTLE READER: They don't need to hear your name. It is right there in front of them.

But Miss Manners needs to know the identity of these people before she decides whether or not your complaint is legitimate. Some changes are sensible and necessary, in which case you are not excused from them on the basis of age -- but some are not.

While we are all used to having to identify ourselves on the telephone, there is increasingly less need to do so. When you visit someone you know, you are greeted on sight without having to state your identity.

The exception would be when you are telephoning someone with whom you are not on a first name basis or someone you don't even know -- for example, making a business call. No amount of time will rescue that from its being cheeky to call you Dorothy take advantage of technology to assume unwarranted familiarity.

DEAR MISS MANNERS: I am unsure how to respond to people when they compliment me and then pry as to how I do what they compliment me on.

I am of slight build on a tall frame and gave birth less than two months ago. I am already back into my pre-pregnancy clothing and have been for about a month. I don't work out and I don't adhere to some crazy diet to lose weight. I just can't gain and keep it on.

I am a stay-at-home mom, so I am always bringing our three children out with me to go shopping or to the playground. I live in a small community, so everyone knows everyone, somehow, and so they know me at least enough to feel it is OK to say hi and make small chitchat.

The compliment I don't know how to respond to is always about how I look so good after giving birth so recently. I always say "Thank you" and then get hit with "How did you lose the weight?" or something like it.

The truth is that I didn't do anything, and it is all genetic, but I don't want to seem like I am bragging. Should I lie and say that I didn't gain all that much due to morning sickness throughout the pregnancy (I only felt ill this time and never once actually was sick this pregnancy) or chalk it up to a hormone problem (I don't have one)?

Should I be adding something to the thank you to prevent this question? What do I do?

GENTLE READER: Certainly not make up stories about symptoms you did not have. Expectant and new mothers are hassled enough about their weight -- there is no need to encourage this by cooperating.

And Miss Manners finds it especially ludicrous to be apologetic for not having had problems.

You need only say "No special way" and move on or, out of comradeliness if another new mother is asking, "it's genetic." Or perhaps "I didn't lose that weight -- it's right there, in the baby carriage."

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life

Patience Appreciated at Grocery Store

Miss Manners by by Judith Martin, Nicholas Ivor Martin and Jacobina Martin
by Judith Martin, Nicholas Ivor Martin and Jacobina Martin
Miss Manners | September 14th, 2010

DEAR MISS MANNERS: When I am in the grocery store or a parking lot or some other public place, I often find myself turning around from whatever it is I am doing to find some poor soul standing there, watching me and silently waiting for me to move out of their way.

I am in their way, but I don't know it because I can't see them, and the length of time I have been in their way could have been seconds or minutes, I don't know. I then proceed with an "I'm sorry!" or "Oh! Excuse me!" flushed with embarrassment.

I think it would be good manners for the impeded party to be the first one to politely say "Excuse me," alerting me to their presence so I can let them by. My husband disagrees, saying most people are patient enough. What is the proper way for both parties to proceed?

GENTLE READER: That these people are waiting patiently, rather than using their grocery carts as battering rams to run you down, strikes Miss Manners as quite polite enough.

Yes, they could have asked to be excused. But perhaps they saw you were examining items on a grocery shelf or loading your groceries into your car and kindly decided not to interrupt you in mid-task.

You are right to apologize and to let them through if you are going to take more time. But please save your flushes and embarrassment for greater faults.

DEAR MISS MANNERS: Is it wrong to point out someone's stretch marks and to tell them to use cocoa butter on them in the room with two other people?

GENTLE READER: No doubt there are those who would congratulate themselves on being helpful if they drew attention to what they perceive as a defect in someone and proposed an antidote that is hardly unknown.

If you were the victim of this, Miss Manners commiserates; if you were the perpetrator, please cut it out.

By the way, where did this scene take place that bare tummies were on display? On the beach? In the ladies' locker room?

DEAR MISS MANNERS: My husband and I were invited to a birthday. We were sent a save-the-date card three months in advance. We responded to our RSVP as attending.

We did not attend. My childhood friend's daughter had a graduation the same day, which she, the daughter, personally asked me in person and stated that we must attend, as she and my daughter of the same age are also childhood friends.

Well, the person who invited us bashed us at her party and stated that if we weren't going to go, she could have let the other friends bring their boyfriends after all, whom she didn't even know.

Do I send a gift and letter of apology, which I planned on until I heard her ill-mannered comment in front of numerous people?

GENTLE READER: You are not in a position to complain of other people's bad manners. Explaining why the party is not complete is nothing compared to standing up one's hostess after having accepted an invitation. Miss Manners considers that you owe an abject apology, and you might want to sweeten it with a present.

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